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Old 02-05-2023, 01:36 AM   #1
Kaslak
 
Join Date: Oct 2022
Default Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

Hi,

Looking at the manuals I have seen that using painkillers gives, among other things, high pain threshold.

However, when such a character already has the advantage (I understood that it can be accessed as a mundane capability) basically there is no advantage in using the pharmaceutical aids.

I was wondering if in these cases Super High Pain Threshold (it was outlined somewhere here in the forums) could be awarded in realistic campaigns, or basically a HPT character would have no further advantages, it would just feel less pain instead of "shrugging it off".

Thanks for any input!
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Old 02-05-2023, 03:02 AM   #2
Farmer
 
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

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Originally Posted by Kaslak View Post
Hi,

Looking at the manuals I have seen that using painkillers gives, among other things, high pain threshold.

However, when such a character already has the advantage (I understood that it can be accessed as a mundane capability) basically there is no advantage in using the pharmaceutical aids.

I was wondering if in these cases Super High Pain Threshold (it was outlined somewhere here in the forums) could be awarded in realistic campaigns, or basically a HPT character would have no further advantages, it would just feel less pain instead of "shrugging it off".

Thanks for any input!
They also give other effects, so they would still be in addition to HPT regardless of whether you increase the pain tolerance.

Also, it's not entirely realistic. Morphine, or any NSAID, analgesic, or narcotic (covering most painkillers), doesn't make you immune to *any* level of pain or be able to just shrug if off. Speaking from experience, I've been given so much morphine they were ready to administer naloxone without it relieving pain (and that was on top of a heavy dose of methoxyflurane. So, really, the GM can always rule that drug-induced HPT is only effective in certain ways or to certain levels, and it's not the same as the general advantage, or they can keep it simple and make them the same.

Of course, there are drugs that make you completely immune to the effects of pain, but they have other significant effects. For a realistic campaign, I think it might help depending on the level and the type of pain and maybe you could give some bonuses, but it wouldn't be significant.
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Old 02-05-2023, 03:14 AM   #3
Pursuivant
 
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaslak View Post
I was wondering if in these cases Super High Pain Threshold (it was outlined somewhere here in the forums) could be awarded in realistic campaigns, or basically a HPT character would have no further advantages, it would just feel less pain instead of "shrugging it off".
As a "leveled" advantage, High Pain Threshold can be treated as a form of Resistant treating Pain as a Very Common threat. For 10 points you get +3 vs. pain, for 15 points you get +8, and for 30 points you're immune.

If you wanted to be generous as a GM, you could rule that HPT + painkillers boosts that advantage to the next level, giving +8 to resist pain rather than just +3.

Otherwise, there's no advantage to someone with HPT using painkillers just to numb pain. There might be other desirable effects, but extra pain resistance isn't one of them.

Last edited by Pursuivant; 02-05-2023 at 03:17 AM.
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Old 02-05-2023, 11:38 PM   #4
Kaslak
 
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

Thank you both for the replies!

Basically yes, I was not advocating for pain immunity, but considering to include a leveled advantage. The point was, can whatever give you a natural HPT be further improved by chemicals? I was assuming so, but based on your replies, It is not as simple as that, I guess it depends on what does give a person a natural HPT in the first place.

Note that, on the same line, the replies imply that HPT is applied also on top of characters with LPT, instead of levelling it off, which can make sense.
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Old 02-07-2023, 12:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

I just found out that low tech has rules on analgesic treatments, which just reduce the pain affliction by one level. I am a bit confused, I wonder if, in order to unify the rules (and unless I missed something), the basic set painkiller should be additionally analgesic, instead of modifying its stated effect on pain thresholds.
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Old 02-07-2023, 02:32 AM   #6
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

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Originally Posted by Kaslak View Post
I was assuming so, but based on your replies, It is not as simple as that, I guess it depends on what does give a person a natural HPT in the first place.
High pain threshold is a game mechanic, not anything super correlated with reality.
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Old 02-07-2023, 08:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

Note that the Basic Set is only discussing very strong opiates, not painkillers in general. Lowh-Tech is discussing weaker analgesics and thus gives them a different effect.

High-Tech also has analgesics (asprin, etc.), as does Ultra-Tech (plus improved morphine-like drugs) and Bio-Tech covers these in more detail.
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Old 02-07-2023, 01:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Note that the Basic Set is only discussing very strong opiates, not painkillers in general. High-Tech is discussing weaker analgesics and thus gives them a different effect.

High-Tech also has analgesics (asprin, etc.), as does Ultra-Tech (plus improved morphine-like drugs) and Bio-Tech covers these in more detail.
Thank you for the references, I own both manuals since longer but I had completely forgotten this.
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Old 02-10-2023, 05:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
High-Tech also has analgesics (asprin, etc.), as does Ultra-Tech (plus improved morphine-like drugs) and Bio-Tech covers these in more detail.
Note that aspirin is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) rather than an analgesic. It usually won't matter for games, but it can matter a lot in real life. Unless prescribed, long term NSAID use should be avoided.

Analgesics are things like paracetamol (acetaminophen in the US). They are generally tolerated better in long term use although paracetamol overdosing is surprisingly common and easy to do (and often fatal).

Morphine is an opiod and addictive (which can matter for games as well as real life).
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Old 02-10-2023, 07:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Painkillers + High pain threshold interaction

NSAIDS also aren't going to do much about the type of pain GURPS HPT deals with, because they work by targeting the causes of particular types of pain, not by reducing felt pain, and 'being stabbed' is not one of the causes they target (though they would target ongoing pain after the effect).

GURPS HPT is either hypoalgesia or pain asymbolia. I would expect anyone with either of those conditions to have atypical responses to painkillers.
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