Martial Arts Questions

[EskrimadorNC]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

So, why not give each of the pregens Karate 16 and one or two maxed-out Techniques? That way they each have all of the options available, but are prevented from being the same as each other.

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Additional suggestion: If points are no object, you might consider Martial Arts Style Wildcard Skills. Introduced somewhere in 4e MA (no time to dig up the page reference right now, sorry), these function as all of the Skills and Techniques of a given Style at their full level, allowing your intended 16 cap as well as a range of Techniques also at 16 that can be different for each PC just by varying their Styles.

I'm essentially doing what you suggested in your top reply, but much more complicated because I am apparently a masochist. :-)

I've setup the characters with mixed skills. Some have Karate and Judo. One has Boxing with no grappling skills, but Clinch and Neck Control. One has Brawling and Wrestling. One has just Karate and a plethora of kicking techniques, and so on.

I am shooting for enough granularity where each character can fight effectively, but in a different manner than the others. The Wildcard approach, I fear, is probably too broad and would result in most of the PCs being too "samey".

My plan is to have 10 pregens for the 4 players. They will only pick one of the pregen's to play, but can pick another as a backup in the event that their first choice dies or gets crippled/unable to fight.

So making 10 characters that all fight a little differently is tough, event with all the perks and techniques in Martial Arts.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC

Gold & Apple Inc said that it's a design rule in 4E that techniques cannot default to techniques, which I get, but I am curious WHY, especially since that didn't seem to be the case in 3E.

That's not true. There is at least one example: Finger lock defaults to Arm/Wrist Lock.

The reason kicks were split off from what I understand is one of realism and game balance: In 3e you could up Kicking and up every other kicking technique there was. People a lot more skilled in martial arts than most said, "It shouldn't work like that."

You could use Skill Adaptation to default some kicks to Kicking on a per kick type basis, but the GM would need to sign off on it.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC

I suppose what I was seeking in response to #1 was some insight into the design reason for not having the advanced kicking techniques default to kicking instead of Karate. Gold & Apple Inc said that it's a design rule in 4E that techniques cannot default to techniques, which I get, but I am curious WHY, especially since that didn't seem to be the case in 3E.

I would be guessing but my guess would be that the issue was probably complexity. 3e Martial Arts was ugly and complicated compared to MA 4e. The 3e book got started as a way to patch a coimabt sytme that didn't realy work that well for people who weren't Knights in heavy armor and carrying shields. The 3e book was necessary at the time but Martial Arts is one of the books that I consider a big improvemnt for 4e.

Keeping track of all the Defaults from Kicking to all the "Kick" Techniques was a part of the complications.

Also, one of the reasons MA works better in 4e might be a unified vision about basic rules principles and the "no Techniques Defaulting to other Techniques" might just be one of those basic principles.

[EskrimadorNC]

Thanks a ton to everyone who has replied so far.

I think I am pretty well set on an answer to number 1, but I still need help with my other items. Any thoughts/feedback?

2. Choke Holds. So Tracheal Chokes inflict crushing damage to the neck AND suffocation (FP loss), but what about Blood Chokes? I know they are used predominately to induce FP loss, not Injury, but do they still cause MoV damage? The write-up in Martial Arts isn't super clear...and you can read it like the MoV in the QC causes immediate FP damage, and maintaining the choke causes 1 FP/sec after that, but I'm not sure that is correct.

3. The text for Ear Clap mentions that it is generally more effective if you clap both ears rather than 1, but based on the text, it seems like all that does make the victim Deaf for 2d seconds. I get how debilitating that can be in a multi-threat combat environment, but mechanically it just doesn't seem impactful at all for the IMMEDIATE fight...certainly not worth compromising your ability to Defend (AoA Double) or drastically reducing your accuracy because of Rapid Strike penalties. Am I missing something?

4. The Drop Kick test is a little ambiguous in how it is resolved. It's clear that it requires a Move and Attack and at least 1 yard of movement. It's clear that the damage the Attacker rolls is Slam Cr dmg +2. What's not clear is if the attacker takes damage too like in a Slam (seems odd for that maneuver to cause damage to the attacker). And if a hit results in only one damage roll, does that mean the defender automatically has to roll DX or fall prone? Since 1 is more than double 0, is it an automatic knock down if the defender suffers 1 or more points of damage?

[kenclary]

(Repeating just in case)

Originally Posted by EskrimadorNC

I think I am pretty well set on an answer to number 1, but I still need help with my other items. Any thoughts/feedback?

[I]2. Choke Holds. So Tracheal Chokes inflict crushing damage to the neck AND suffocation (FP loss), but what about Blood Chokes? I know they are used predominately to induce FP loss, not Injury, but do they still cause MoV damage? The write-up in Martial Arts isn't super clear...and you can read it like the MoV in the QC causes immediate FP damage, and maintaining the choke causes 1 FP/sec after that, but I'm not sure that is correct.

Iirc, it's MoV each turn. Air chokes are crushing damage, blood chokes are FP damage (so it's always one or the other).