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Old 06-22-2012, 11:42 PM   #31
Celti
 
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

I think there's one crucial thing missing from Abstract Wealth: any mention of starting wealth. I think I'd require the 80/20% split of starting wealth for someone to even have a "Wealth roll" available to them.
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Old 06-23-2012, 01:15 AM   #32
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

It seems like "From skills to advantages" could be used to reproduce D&D style abilities rather nicely. Traceless Step is already there and I could see a place for Backstab: Unusual Training (Power Blow) only vs unaware enemies or something similar.
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:58 AM   #33
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Do you mean the forums and e23? If so... yeah, you're right; that's rough. :-) They use separate login systems.
That's the one - forums and e23. Gross shadenfreude, lieblings.
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Old 06-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #34
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

I'm really impressed with this whole issue: I enjoyed every article, and several of them -- "The Last Gasp", "From Skills to Advantages", "Abstract Wealth", "Survivable Guns", and at least the guts of "Colorless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously" -- went on my "please incorporate this into the core rules for any future editions" list.

I need to do a little re-reading on "The Last Gasp" to understand all the complexities, and I'm not sure I'd use all the options, but I think the basic idea of separating short-term energy use (AP) from long-term fatigue (FP) and injury (HP), with a cascade structure where each pool can draw from the next one down, is brilliant, and I love love love the idea of adding energy "budgeting" to combat. This system offers the best simulation of combat lulls I've ever seen in a game; it also has the advantage of making HT and Will more important for melee warrior types. And I could really see the "light fighter wearing down the armored tank" approach working with these rules.

"From Skills to Advantages" is an excellent short tweak: it's one of those perfect ideas that seems obvious in retrospect (though I'd never thought of it before, of course).

"Abstract Wealth" takes an idea that I've liked in other games (e.g., True20) but greatly improves it by retaining concrete prices rather than abstracting them as well. This lets you bypass the copper-counting while still helping you understand what your Wealth score actually means. My only tiny niggle is that I would probably reverse some of the math, so that your Wealth score tells you what you can buy trivially/automatically, and then you can buy up to 5× on a check with one set of modifiers/results, up to 10× on a check with another set, and so on.

"Survivable Guns", again, seems like something that should have been in the rules all along: we care mostly about what weapons do to characters, so why weren't guns' damage rated on that basis to begin with?

"Colorless Green Ideas Sleep Furiously" has maybe a little more complexity than I would need (though I can definitely imagine a game in which it would be appropriate). But the essentials of the system -- spoken and written language proficiency rated on a skill basis, with only script knowledge retaining the advantage cost structure -- is what I've wanted for a long time, and the table showing real-world language interrelationships is exactly the kind of educational information that I love finding in GURPS supplements. (Guilty acknowledgment: I'd been a subscriber to the "all Chinese languages are the same in written form" myth prior to reading this article.)

Great work. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds the Alternate GURPS issues to be among the best that Pyramid offers, but I thought it was worth saying anyway. I'm already looking forward to Alternate GURPS III...
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Last edited by trystero; 06-23-2012 at 11:18 AM. Reason: Fixed formatting.
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:40 PM   #35
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

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Originally Posted by trystero View Post
"Survivable Guns", again, seems like something that should have been in the rules all along: we care mostly about what weapons do to characters, so why weren't guns' damage rated on that basis to begin with?
The gun rules were in flux in early editions of GURPS. They stabilized with GURPS High Tech which adopted the present system; I'm not sure, but my impression was that the damage rules were adopted primarily for realism rather than playability.

I did advocate something similar to the Survivable Guns system fairly late in design of GURPS 4th edition, but by the time I realized that was what I wanted to do that level of revision was deemed a bit too much, too late! I think most people who talked to SJ Games were happy with the present gun rules.

That said, I prefer the Survivable Guns approach myself, as it seems to better portray the "realism" of shooting descriptions I've read
about, as well as keeping PCs alive. I use it as one of the key elements in what I call my personal GURPS Medium rules.
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Last edited by David L Pulver; 06-23-2012 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 01:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

Do the Survivable Guns rules deal well with energy weapons? Would a Rainbow Laser rifle go from 6d(3) to 3d(6)? How do you deal with the interaction between the non-standard armor divisors (not 2, 3, 5, 10, etc.) created and their interactions with Hardened armor?
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:33 AM   #37
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

In this case, I'd think the armor divisors would multiply. So 3d(6) that usually has a (2) would be 3d(12) . . . which you might want to make 4d (10) for ease of use.

Another way to go to lower lethality, keep the existing rules, AND provide ease of play:

1) Use armor as dice (Pyramid #3/34)
2) Write down a blow-through threshold equal to the dice-equivalent of HP (round down). So if you've got 14 HP, you have a 4d blowthrough threshold. If you have 10, it would be 2d+3 or 3d-1.


So in play, you have 12 HP and get hit behind DR 4d by three shots from a 9d rifle. 5d for each shot penetrate. 12 HP is a blow-through of 3d+1, so each bullet does 3d+1 behind-armor damage, and over-penetrates for about 2d behind the victim.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:26 AM   #38
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

Excellent product. My favorite issue of Pyramid yet.
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:48 PM   #39
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

For the revisionists here, I for one, like G4e RAW with respect to weapons and damage. Tuning it down, a la survivable guns, is perfect as an alternative
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Old 06-24-2012, 06:57 PM   #40
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Default Re: Pyramid #3/44: Alternate GURPS II

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But if I'm going to contribute to the design and execution of GURPS through articles like this one,
Please, please keep trying, it's a really, really fantastic article, I just feel it needs more polish and refinement.
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