[Basic] Disadvantage of the Week: Final Stand

[johndallman]

Final Stand [-10*] is a mundane mental disadvantage with a self-control roll. It comes from Tales of the Solar Patrol, a setting based on 1930s pulp SF, especially movie serials. It represents a tradition of honour through self-sacrifice, an actual keenness to die for the values you uphold. The self-control roll is made to resist the chance to die.

There are limits: you can’t advertise your feelings on this subject, since it’s not officially endorsed by the Solar Patrol. You won’t do it pointlessly, your sacrifice has to at least improve the odds of success. Finally, you won’t take others with you, which gives dark comedy potential from two characters competing for the same chance for a glorious death.

This disadvantage only appears in the Tales of the Solar Patrol setting book, but could exist for honourable individual combatants in almost any conflict. Has something like this happened in your games?

[rpd]

How in the hell is that a -10 disadvantage?

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by rpd

How in the hell is that a -10 disadvantage?

Are you saying it's too low or too high?

[Ulzgoroth]

As described, it does seem like a showy form of Terminally Ill or very bad Destiny...

Perhaps it was considered to be akin to a milder form of On The Edge [-15*], though I'm not sure I'd agree with that. On The Edge doesn't say you want to die, just that you may be unwilling to back down even if any reasonable person would. And you can re-roll self control on that pretty frequently, if the trouble your in isn't too immediately fatal.

[Micah Davis]

On the Edge fits on someone like a Meth from Altered Carbon. People who respawn, like the phoenix, also work. You can also imagine artificial life forms with it programmed in if they're designed for combat purposes. I'm struggling to think of who this would be appropriate for?

In a fantasy setting or one with Sufficiently Advanced Precursors if you had Destiny (Bring Ruin to Camelot) [10] or something like that, I think having this (even having this at a low control value) could be fun.

In the real world, this might represent the hunger for martyrdom - For most Christians, this would probably represent simple Fanaticism or True Faith. But, especially in the early church, there were definitely people who sought out martyrdom - The Church Fathers had to lay down a rule that you could not actively try to get martyred, you had to make at least a good faith effort not to die. You can imagine a culture that, like the Vikings, requires an honorable death to achieve a good afterlife and there this disadvantage would be very common.

Anyway, it's point value is too low for most characters to take it in an action campaign like I perceive Solar Patrol to be. But I might take it in a social-focused game, either on a bodyguard or a radical preacher (religious or someone like the anarchist Propagandists-of-the-Deed), and (as explained above) I might take it with an appropriate destiny it represents a chance to outrun.

[Rolando]

It is low because it doesn't force the player to do anything.
It have too many caveats and easy ways out.

Characters with this disadvantage will only give their life if there is no way they can live and also save the day or at least many other people or whatever they are fighting for. And even then if they see the sacrifice as pointless, their death not improving the odds of the grater good success they will not throw their life either.

So, these heroes fight for something and are not afraid to die if that brings success. They are not martyrs that will die to send a message, just because of indignation or because they don't agree and see no other option except die instead of keep fighting, even a loosing fight.

-10 is fine, like a code of honor that gets you in life or death trouble from time to time.

Edit:
Also, it doesn't say the self control roll is to not give your life, it is for the character not to "give your all", that means they will go fighting, they will not necessarily just throw themselves in the line of fire in hopes of dying.

[RogerBW]

Solar Patrol was a relatively early GURPS4 book (2008) and I think the idea of not having new top-line traits if at all possible hadn't quite sunk in yet. If the book were being written now, I'd definitely expect this to be altered into a variant of On the Edge, or perhaps a new Code of Honor to go with the others in this book.

[Michael Cule]

You know if I'd known there was a disadvantage for it I'd have played this trait more consistently!

(This is one of the things role-playing has taught me about myself. It's just as well I don't live a life of adventure and glory or I'd be dead several times over.)

I think it might work better as part of a Code of Honour. "There is no greater glory than dying to save others/to cover the retreat of your comrades."

I'm not at all sure that it deserves to be allowed in a world where you can come back. If your brain recording is going to upload and the technicians will be decanting your replacement body in a couple of days dying is just another tactic.

[Plane]

is Selfless a prereq for this?

[johndallman]

No, although they would go together reasonably well.