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Old 12-23-2018, 01:19 PM   #21
Boge
 
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

Men get extra shock from getting hit in the groin. Women don't. Where's the compensation?
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Old 12-23-2018, 02:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

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Old 12-23-2018, 03:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

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Originally Posted by Boge View Post
Men get extra shock from getting hit in the groin. Women don't. Where's the compensation?
Bio-Tech 172: Injury Tolerance (No Vitals; Partial, Vitals, Groin only, -60%) [2]

Either men have a similar 2-point built-in advantage like this, or women also have a 2-point built-in disadvantage.
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Old 12-23-2018, 06:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

While they are 0-point features in 4e (I think in 3e they were 1-point perks), Human females do not have Easy Childbirth or Light Menses, and do get to carry offspring to term. Males get to have 'No Childbirth', 'No Menses', and 'No pregnancy', which if we're being all picky and ultra-realistic about things, is probably worth some points.

Males get more ST, and a raft of smaller bonuses to running speed and related endeavours over the short to long term that are generally too small to fit into GURPS, and are more resistant to many poisons (both due to greater body mass on average and a more aggressive {but more failure-prone} liver). Females get a small bonus over days plus length endurance races, plus better resistance to shock, plus better disease resistance, better sense of smell and hearing (on average, though how much of that is environmental is arguable), and their normally smaller hands and fingers are better at very fine manual work (due to being smaller). Most of this is also below GURPS' resolution.

I suppose that GURPS ends up like real life in this - the obvious extra strength of men is large enough that everyone knows about it, everything else aside from women having to bear children tends to disappear into the noise (and the latter doesn't come up in most GURPS campaigns I've seen).
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Old 12-24-2018, 07:50 AM   #25
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

It's also a bit of myth that only men's groins are more sensitive to pain and women's aren't (over and above "base torso level*").

If I really had to come up with ruling at my table I'd say women get 1.5x shock pen and -2 to knock down rolls


*of course once you get into the psychology of this and different ares in the body in general you are way past GURPs level of detail anyway! If nothing else women getting punched in the breasts is apparently painful as well
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:22 AM   #26
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

Menses is a real pain in the real world, but how many games actually include/mandate roleplaying the hassles of menses or pregnancies? Sure, a few do.
But compare that to the percentages involving the chance of injuries to the groin. I don't think they're comparable.

For game balance, I'd just smooth over the differences and say everyone gets groin penalties, and anyone that wishes to deal with "womanly issues" can, but on a purely voluntary basis.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:25 AM   #27
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
...
Males get more ST, and a raft of smaller bonuses to running speed and related endeavours over the short to long term that are generally too small to fit into GURPS, and are more resistant to many poisons (both due to greater body mass on average and a more aggressive {but more failure-prone} liver). Females get a small bonus over days plus length endurance races, plus better resistance to shock, plus better disease resistance, better sense of smell and hearing (on average, though how much of that is environmental is arguable), and their normally smaller hands and fingers are better at very fine manual work (due to being smaller). Most of this is also below GURPS' resolution.

I suppose that GURPS ends up like real life in this - the obvious extra strength of men is large enough that everyone knows about it, everything else aside from women having to bear children tends to disappear into the noise (and the latter doesn't come up in most GURPS campaigns I've seen).
That's a whole lot of opinion stated as fact.
Regardless of what statistical differences one believes there are, in Gurps, you get what you pay for. If you want higher strength, you pay for it. Nothing for free is usually the mantra.
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

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Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
It's also a bit of myth that only men's groins are more sensitive to pain and women's aren't (over and above "base torso level*").
Yup. Strike a woman in the clitoris and she'll curl up in a ball just as fast as man.

Quote:
*of course once you get into the psychology of this and different ares in the body in general you are way past GURPs level of detail anyway! If nothing else women getting punched in the breasts is apparently painful as well
This one goes back and forth. Female martial artists and boxers seem to either 'get past it' or aren't bothered. But I've known other women who've gotten accidentally popped in the breast who reacted like a guy taking one to the testes.

It might be a hormonal/time of the month thing?
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Old 12-24-2018, 11:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

If a GM wants to deal with the stress of making gendered templates, that is their choice, but the average difference are rather modest, and I would suggest just giving characters a positive template worth 15 CP. That way, you could give men +1 ST and +1 Basic Move while you could give women +1 HT and +1 Per. Men get to be stronger and faster on average while women get to be healthier and more perceptive on average.
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:02 AM   #30
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Default Re: Detailed athletics rules, and male vs female muscle, basic speed, performance.

Ehhh most gender differences are below resolution. Realistically men have have a ST bonus or women get a ST penalty, but you may as well skip it for game purposes.
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