10-21-2020, 06:18 PM | #51 | |
Join Date: Jul 2008
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
My view on that is that the Lee and the cruiser tanks were garbage tanks - in the case of the Lee at least almost intentionally so and for reasonable cause, but still not a good tank. The Sherman and the T-34 set the curve, and the Pz IV just manages to stay viable by pressing its frame to the absolute limits.
Quote:
(Unlike the left-over Panthers, which were reasonably competitive with any tanks around in the '40s.)
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident. |
|
10-21-2020, 07:10 PM | #52 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." Last edited by Rupert; 10-22-2020 at 01:34 AM. |
||
10-21-2020, 08:10 PM | #53 | ||||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
Quote:
Quote:
The Panther was the tank Germany needed in the field when they were advancing, once they were defending/falling back, more Jagdpanzer IVs would have been a better use of resources, well used, they could kill t-34/85s, expertly used, they could damage the KV tanks enough to put them out of action until repaired. Quote:
Quote:
I will note that Panzer IVs were still in use in the 1967 Six-Day war by Syria, while definitely not front line units by then, they were good enough to still be maintained, despite all the mostly free Shermans, T-34s, and T-55s, floating around. They were also acquired with the intention of using them against Israel, who was known to be skilled with tanks, and not intended to be used against people without tanks. *I will also note that the Chieftain, mentioned above, rates the Panzer III as more effective than the T-34 at the time of the German invasion of Russia. In 1941, the T-34 still had significant teething issues, with very green crews. The Panzer III, with the long barrel 50mm KwK 39 L/60, with all the bugs worked out, and expert crews could pick off early T-34/76s. An advantage rapidly lost, once the bugs were worked out on the T-34s, the crews were trained, and too many Panzer III crews were either transitioned to a Panzer IVs, or dead.
__________________
Xenophilia is Dr. Who. Plus Lecherous is Jack Harkness.- Anaraxes Last edited by adm; 10-21-2020 at 08:57 PM. |
||||
10-21-2020, 09:01 PM | #54 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: MO, U.S.A.
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
PIAT, It is worth remembering the PIAT was designed with the knowledge that the Boys Anti-tank rifle was obsolete, and designed when LAWs were a theoretical design, the PIAT is a decent niche design, that if the Bazooka had failed, would likely have seen far greater use. After LAWs were shown to be a better bang for the buck, the PIAT faded away.
__________________
Xenophilia is Dr. Who. Plus Lecherous is Jack Harkness.- Anaraxes |
10-22-2020, 02:03 AM | #55 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
Quote:
It's funny - a lot of sites are making the claim that the Pz.III was a big step forward with its three-man turret, but the Pz.IV precedes it. Also, note that in the desert the Pz.IV was not considered better than the Crusader, and the Pz.III was inferior. So you needed a late model Pz.IV to be roughly equal to a bog-standard M4, or a T-34 with the three-man turret. Having a gun that's still a threat doesn't mean much - the British 6-pounder was a threat to most German tanks throughout the war (and to all of them from the side or rear), and even the 2-pounder could be a problem for even late model Pz.IVs from some aspects (unlike the various 37mm guns from the early war period which did become useless against most tanks pretty quickly). Quote:
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
||
10-24-2020, 06:24 AM | #56 |
☣
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
For a lot of little reasons that often get missed, the Sherman is a very good tank. Especially by late war - with the 76mm, HVAP ammunition, wet ammo storage, and HVSS, it had became one of the most refined tank designs in operation at the end of the war. A lot of people overlook things like engine reliability, ease of field maintenance, or ergonomics - compare the Sherman's "oh bugger, the tank is on fire" test to that of... anything else.
__________________
RyanW - Actually one normal sized guy in three tiny trenchcoats. |
10-24-2020, 08:00 AM | #57 | |
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
Re: Knocking out a WW2 tank
Quote:
By the way, this is one reason why the Valentine was still in service at the end of the war, slow, marginally gunned, and with only a two-man turret though it was - it was reliable and easy to maintain. That it still had decent armour and was small and handy help too.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn "A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history." |
|
Tags |
tank, wwii |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|