Bronze Age Greece On A Shoestring Budget

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

They wasted most of their resources testing glued linen. There isn't a scrap of evidence to suggest that glue was ever historically used by anyone to make armour. Layered textile armour has been used all over the world for thousands of years and there are plenty of surviving examples. Every single one was quilted, not glued.

And that's what makes the linothorax issue that much more annoying for those of us with a mind for these things; there's all these examples of textile armors that have survived to the present, but there's not one of them that's an actual damn linen cuirass of the sort mentioned by the references (that I'm aware of, anyway)!

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

There was a tube and yoke armour found in Philip's tomb at Vergina made of iron.

Hah! Now that's cool to know.

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

And that's what makes the linothorax issue that much more annoying for those of us with a mind for these things; there's all these examples of textile armors that have survived to the present, but there's not one of them that's an actual damn linen cuirass of the sort mentioned by the references (that I'm aware of, anyway)!

There is one. It was found at Patras but it dates to the end of the Mycenaean period. It is quilted like every other example of layered textile armour.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

There is one. It was found at Patras but it dates to the end of the Mycenaean period. It is quilted like every other example of layered textile armour.

Would you happen to know *when* it was found? If it was known of before the university tests, that's a...somewhat severe failure to research on their part. XD

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Well then! XD

Thanks for the numbers. Is this particular Loadouts book going to be another Low-Tech companion volume, sir?

Don't know whether it is going to a part of the Loadouts series or part of the Low-Tech series. It uses the Low-Tech stats so I'm guessing it will be part of that series.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Don't know whether it is going to a part of the Loadouts series or part of the Low-Tech series. It uses the Low-Tech stats so I'm guessing it will be part of that series.

All right then, I'll keep an eye out for it when it hits! Thanks. :)

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Would you happen to know *when* it was found? If it was known of before the university tests, that's a...somewhat severe failure to research on their part. XD

It hasn't been published yet. Doesn't matter. They should never have bothered with glue. They couldn't produce one line of text from a primary source anywhere in the world to suggest that glue was used to make armour. It would have been far more useful if they spent their resources experimenting with different ways to make quilted linen armour using different weaves of cloth.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

It hasn't been published yet. Doesn't matter. They should never have bothered with glue. They couldn't produce one line of text from a primary source anywhere in the world to suggest that glue was used to make armour. It would have been far more useful if they spent their resources experimenting with different ways to make quilted linen armour using different weaves of cloth.

If I had to guess, I think they must have made the mistake of trying too hard to emulate the look of the tube and yoke armors as shown by the pottery images rather than paying closer attention to their sources. XD The pictures on the pottery don't show (and probably wouldn't, given the limitation of the medium) any telltale signs of quilting lattices. They might've thought "oh well if the cloth was that homogenous, it must not have been quilted" and nobody thought to go "hey, wait a minute, this doesn't quite jive with our literary sources".

[DanHoward]

Connolly came up with the theory first. They just parroted him without checking his research. Connolly couldn't think of any other way to get linen shoulder guards to stand up like they do in some illustrations without making them rigid with glue. That's it. There is nothing in the sources to support the theory. It has since been demonstrated that you can get the same effect with quilting. I hate picking on Connolly since he is one of my heroes but he was wrong on this one.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Connolly came up with the theory first. They just parroted him without checking his research. Connolly couldn't think of any other way to get linen shoulder guards to stand up like they do in some illustrations without making them rigid with glue. That's it. There is nothing in the sources to support the theory. It has since been demonstrated that you can get the same effect with quilting. I hate picking on Connolly since he is one of my heroes but he was wrong on this one.

Aha, okay.

Maybe someday somebody will do tests on a properly made quilted experimental suit. I'd love to find out how the glued samples skewed the results from what weapon impacts would do to a quilted one.