A few smackdown questions

[Mailanka]

So, I've tossed together a Strong Guy martial artist (inspired by a character from a free-form game I played years ago) for an up-and-coming Action one-shot, and in exploring the ins and outs of hand-to-hand, a few questions have cropped up for me. Thought maybe I'd toss them to the forum, see what crops up.

Ok, first up, Head Butt and Stamp Kick. Knee-Strike states that, if you have your foe grappled from the front, you can attack his groin at no penalty. Fair enough. It seems to me that Stamp Kick would naturally target the foot, but I see nothing in the text that indicates this, only a note that you can only target the foot or leg of a standing target. Fair enough: A foot is kinda hard to hit anyway. As far as I can tell, though, Head Butt has neither the limitation of Stamp Kick nor the bonus of Knee-Strike. It seems to me that attacking the Skull would be a natural target for a Head Butt, but as I read it, you'd actually have a much easier time attacking the torso. Is that so? Or did I miss something?

Second, Breaking Free. My guy is pretty strong (ST 15) with 8 points in Wrestling (+2 to ST, which adds to my attempts to Break Free, but not my attempts to keep my victim in my grasp... right?). We had a test fight against a rather agile but relatively weak ("Only" ST 11, no comparable Wrestling skills) and once I had my hands on her, between my ST 15 and the +5 for using both hands, she was mine and there was nothing she could do about it. Is there some new rule for high DX characters to squirm out of a grapple, or is it really RAW that once a big guy has his paws on you, it's all over except for the crying?

Finally, slightly unrelated: The optional Bleeding rolls apply a penalty to your rolls to recover based on how much damage you take. Does this same penalty apply to First Aid rolls for bandaging a bleeding character?

[Kromm]

Well, if you're looking to add this much extra detail to an Action campaign, as opposed to taking what Action says on faith, then you'll have to delve into Martial Arts . . .

Originally Posted by Mailanka

As far as I can tell, though, Head Butt has neither the limitation of Stamp Kick nor the bonus of Knee-Strike. It seems to me that attacking the Skull would be a natural target for a Head Butt, but as I read it, you'd actually have a much easier time attacking the torso. Is that so? Or did I miss something?

Head Butt reflects ramming your head into your enemy's gut, head-butting a foot when you're down, and anything else you might try. It would be awkward to impose hard-wired limitations like those for Stamp Kick, although there are some limits on what it can reach; see p. 99. It's just that while a stamp is always aimed at something near ground level, you can bend at the waist, pop up from a crouch, etc. to butt somebody at almost any level. There's no special bonus to hit because the natural target when standing is easily tilted back out of reach. Most people lack an articulated groin, which is why Knee Strike gets a freebie. This was discussed in playtest.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Second, Breaking Free. My guy is pretty strong (ST 15) with 8 points in Wrestling (+2 to ST, which adds to my attempts to Break Free, but not my attempts to keep my victim in my grasp... right?).

In fact, it adds to both. A bonus to ST for the purpose of "making a grapple" could only possibly mean a ST bonus vs. a foe's attempt to break free. There's no other way in which ST affects making a grapple.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

We had a test fight against a rather agile but relatively weak ("Only" ST 11, no comparable Wrestling skills) and once I had my hands on her, between my ST 15 and the +5 for using both hands, she was mine and there was nothing she could do about it. Is there some new rule for high DX characters to squirm out of a grapple, or is it really RAW that once a big guy has his paws on you, it's all over except for the crying?

For the most part, if you're grappled by someone with high ST, a Wrestling bonus, etc., using both his hands, you're hosed as far as breaking free goes. Do note, however, that you're at -4 to hit back, not unable to hit back, unless you're actually pinned. An agile striker should be able to manage a hit even at -4, and thus can break free through pain, or through crippling, stun, or knockout. See p. 119.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Finally, slightly unrelated: The optional Bleeding rolls apply a penalty to your rolls to recover based on how much damage you take. Does this same penalty apply to First Aid rolls for bandaging a bleeding character?

This applies to both rolls, yes. See p. 138.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Well, if you're looking to add this much extra detail to an Action campaign, as opposed to taking what Action says on faith, then you'll have to delve into Martial Arts . . .

It's not that I disagree with anything in Action, it's that I'm still learning. For example, I was recently surprised to discover that Action carefully defines what Trained by a Master offers in an Action game, thus answering alot of my questions.

Plus Martial Arts is such a fun book ^_^

Head Butt reflects ramming your head into your enemy's gut

And everything suddenly makes so much sense.

In fact, it adds to both. A bonus to ST for the purpose of "making a grapple" could only possibly mean a ST bonus vs. a foe's attempt to break free. There's no other way in which ST affects making a grapple.

Logical. The way the core book described Wrestling confused me.

For the most part, if you're grappled by someone with high ST, a Wrestling bonus, etc., using both his hands, you're hosed as far as breaking free goes. Do note, however, that you're at -4 to hit back, not unable to hit back, unless you're actually pinned. An agile striker should be able to manage a hit even at -4, and thus can break free through pain, or through crippling, stun, or knockout. See p. 119.

Noted, though her problem in this case is that 1d-2 damage vs someone with a natural DR against Crushing Damage of 1 and 15 HP means her chances of stunning my character were near nill ("Go for the eyes!" I suppose). It does seem the best course of action, though.

This applies to both rolls, yes. See p. 138.

Sweet.

Thanks so much for the reply.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

Noted, though her problem in this case is that 1d-2 damage vs someone with a natural DR against Crushing Damage of 1 and 15 HP means her chances of stunning my character were near nill ("Go for the eyes!" I suppose). It does seem the best course of action, though.

Sometimes the eyes really are your only hope. Big, skilled people have a huge advantage over little, unskilled people once they have their hands on them in real life. For a personal anecdote slightly closer to the norm than your example, a fairly average-looking guy with enough Wrestling to do a real blood choke on the first try despite being very drunk (we'll call him ST 10 / No Brawling / Wrestling at DX) did just that to me (ST 8 / Brawling at DX / No Grappling Skills) at work a couple years ago. I tried a couple Break Free attempts at 8 (ST + Nothing) vs 15 (ST + Both Hands) and felt like I didn't even come close to succeeding, but one panicked All-Out (Determined) Telegraphic Eye Poke and failed Stun+Knockdown later and it was All-Out (Determined) Telegraphic Stamp Kick to the head and kidneys time. If the AoA Eye Poke had failed, I would, of course, have been in very big trouble, so I don't recommend playtesting this one if you don't have to.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

Sometimes the eyes really are your only hope. Big, skilled people have a huge advantage over little, unskilled people once they have their hands on them in real life. For a personal anecdote slightly closer to the norm than your example, a fairly average-looking guy with enough Wrestling to do a real blood choke on the first try despite being very drunk (we'll call him ST 10 / No Brawling / Wrestling at DX+1) did just that to me (ST 8 / Brawling at DX / No Grappling Skills) at work a couple years ago. I tried a couple Break Free attempts at 8 vs 11 and felt like I didn't even come close to succeeding, but one panicked All-Out (Determined) Telegraphic Eye Poke and failed Stun+Knockdown later and it was All-Out (Determined) Telegraphic Stamp Kick to the head and kidneys time. If the AoA Eye Poke had failed, I would, of course, have been in very big trouble, so I don't recommend playtesting this one.

To be sure, I'm complaining that my character is awesome, just making sure that I'm not missing anything.

(I will say, though, my character was spectacular in that fight. I have to say, I'm really impressed with the Big Guy build, but I can't think of anything in Action that's ever disappointed me. And this is my first time really messing with Martial Arts. I was very pleased with how those fights felt)

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

And this is my first time really messing with Martial Arts. I was very pleased with how those fights felt)

Yeah, 4e Martial Arts is great stuff. I recommend it highly to any readers who haven't invested in it whose games include violence. :]