Healing Oneself - First Aid Penalty?

[mook]

Originally Posted by Kromm

If nothing else, First Aid is at a penalty on oneself

Does anyone know where I can find mention of this penalty in the Basic Set? My Research skill has failed.

[Kromm]

Heh, it appears that the box fell out of the layout seven years ago and nobody noticed. To paraphrase: Most medical skills cannot be used on onself, although the GM may allow plausible uses at a suitably large penalty; e.g., First Aid is at -1 per HP of injury.

[Anthony]

Interesting choice for magnitude of penalty; probably just as well that it fell out of layout. The major problems with first aid on self are that wounds are often in places that are difficult to examine or manipulate, and the fact that you're in pain. The first penalty should not be dependent on the amount of damage you've suffered, the second penalty should not be any different for first aid than for any other skill you attempt while injured, presumably a generic 'moderate/severe/terrible pain' depending on how wounded you are.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Interesting choice for magnitude of penalty; probably just as well that it fell out of layout. The major problems with first aid on self are that wounds are often in places that are difficult to examine or manipulate, and the fact that you're in pain. The first penalty should not be dependent on the amount of damage you've suffered, the second penalty should not be any different for first aid than for any other skill you attempt while injured, presumably a generic 'moderate/severe/terrible pain' depending on how wounded you are.

GURPS doesn't really track where you've been injured very well, and shock penalties only last for a second.

[mook]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Heh, it appears that the box fell out of the layout seven years ago and nobody noticed. To paraphrase: Most medical skills cannot be used on onself, although the GM may allow plausible uses at a suitably large penalty; e.g., First Aid is at -1 per HP of injury.

Ah! Good enough as a house-rule for me, thanks for the quick reply. As always the GM can just make the call as to what's outright impossible (shot in the back) or just suffers penalty (shot in the leg).

[chrisjapow]

I remember reading about surgeons who have operated on themselves. Of course, we're talking about very skilled & experienced surgeons working under anaesthesia, but it's possible. I mean, there are many stories of people performing superhuman feats under extreme pressure, and dying would definitely fall under that category...

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by chrisjapow

I remember reading about surgeons who have operated on themselves. Of course, we're talking about very skilled & experienced surgeons working under anaesthesia, but it's possible. I mean, there are many stories of people performing superhuman feats under extreme pressure, and dying would definitely fall under that category...

Yes, it IS possible. That's why it's a skill penalty, not "You cannot operate on yourself."

Don't forget that equipment gives bonuses, especially modern equipment, and also don't forget that the dice can still (rarely) give you a success even if your modified skill is 4 :)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

GURPS doesn't really track where you've been injured very well, and shock penalties only last for a second.

Well, pretty much all locations are kind of awkward, it's just a question of how awkward. A generic penalty of -3 to -5 seems about right.

[zoncxs]

penalty equal to HP loss, FP loss, and location would make it realistic enough for people to cry :)

so less say you were shot in the left arm and had to run for 20 minutes.

you loss 2HP and 1FP. your arm is still bleeding. you have first aid at 13 ( you learned medical stuff in college etc.) and try to "fix" it

13 - 2(HP) - 1 (FP)- 2(left arm) = first aid skill of 8.

if you are a righty and got shot in the right arm then you would suffer even more penalty because trying to do something with the arm you never do it with is really hard. using the same example you get:

13 - 2(HP) - 1 (FP)- 2(left arm) - 4(off-hand) = first aid skill of 4.

half the off hand penalty if you know first aid at +1 or higher?

idk im sleepy :)

[Wicked Lurker]

So what about the classic movie scene where the field surgeon is mortally wounded and his assistant has to do the operation under his supervision.

You probably do have a bigger chance of survival if you know what the problem (ie. injury) is and how it can be treated even if you do not do it yourself but have someone else do it who has much lower skill.