RPM Rituals: Official, Semi-, Quasi- and Un-official

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

One rule hack would be to apply an advantage limitation as a discount on the energy cost. Accessibility Limitations or the Limited Defenses modifiers for defensive abilities would be good candidates.

I've seen write-ups for Rituals where the limitation rules are used, but I'm not sure what the official rules are for using Limitations as part of the RPM system. I'm very much in favour of it myself, but I want to avoid any pitfalls that playtesting might have revealed.

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

Either set of limitations would give large discounts if the susceptible targets were defined narrowly. This could potentially become game breaking. The main downside for such limited banes is that charm slots would be wasted if used on an invalid target. To fully exploit the discount, the PCs would need to do their research and figure out what they are going up against. In my opinion, this would be very fitting for a monster hunters game.

Yep.

I really want to encourage the PCs to find out what they are facing, as it is supposed to be extremely difficult to permanently defeat supernatural threats without making use of their specific vulnerabilities and/or working magic that is specifically designed to counter them.

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

Players may also try to break the game by claiming discounts on broad categories of targets. GM fiat will be required to establish balanced discounts. But this shouldn't be any more difficult than the GM calls RPM already requires.

As long as a bonus that applies to every target is 100% of energy cost, I don't really mind very broad groups qualifying as 80%. As I said, it's a lot more flavourful to have Supernatural Bane bullet Charms than just +2 bullets, so I don't mind making it more efficient to do it that way.

[Icelander]

If a PC disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle and survived for an undetermined period of time in a strange realm of islands besieged by Things Man Was Not Meant to Know, where he was taught unearthly magic by the Nommo, meant to protect from the Outer Gods, how would one best represent that magic in Ritual Path Magic?

I imagine that they were good at aquatic magic and protection spells against horrors from Beyond, but what other kind of rituals might be associated with the Nommo?

Which Paths would they prioritise?

[Icelander]

Should the Elder Sign be a Ritual in RPM terms or merely a symbol that, if properly drawn (with Symbol Drawing or maybe even Occultism with the right familiarity), triggers Dread in the appropriate beings?

Of course, there's nothing preventing it from being both. Characters without Ritual Magery or even ritual magicians without time to gather energy can make use of the symbol to drivee off creatures with Dread, but when used as part of a Ritual, the Elder Sign reduces energy cost and the effects can be much greater than merely Dread, including banishment or binding, not to mention giving the those warded some much needed protection from terror, madness and the like.

Has anyone written up Lovecraftian rituals or the protective effects of Elder Signs?

[Hide]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Should the Elder Sign be a Ritual in RPM terms or merely a symbol that, if properly drawn (with Symbol Drawing or maybe even Occultism with the right familiarity), triggers Dread in the appropriate beings?
(...) Has anyone written up Lovecraftian rituals or the protective effects of Elder Signs?

I have not, but I made some research a while ago (because I was working on something similar). IMHO, this is pretty similar to using runes.

For example, like this.

Hope it helps.

- Hide

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What is the canonical way to enchant a bullet as a charm so that it does extra damage against certain categories of foes?

Add an appropriate Destroy or Create Effect and then add damage; use the rules for Ammunition Charms (GURPS Thaumtology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 27). This is usually a Lesser effect. For example, Lesser Destroy Spirit + Damage, Indirect Burning might be the equivalent of "holy bullets" that burn demons.

(Aside: You can add a Lesser Destroy Spirit effect to simulate a "holy attack" - it doesn't do damage on its own but relies on a target's traits. You can stack this effect with damaging spells.)

Originally Posted by Icelander

I understand this could be done with Bestows a Bonus, but let's assume we want to have the option of higher damage than that open.

You could increase the basic damage of the firearm this way, but adding indirect/external (linked attack) or direct/internal (a follow-up) is possible too. For example, see here.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Is there any way to make the damage either part of basic Dmg of the bullet (and thus adding for the purposes of penetrating DR) or at least Follow-Up?

See above.

Originally Posted by Icelander

And while damage would seem to fit under Destroy Matter for normal targets, Destroy Spirit for ghosts, qlippoths and demons and Destroy Undead for zombies or vampires, could extra damage to "all supernatural targets" be Destroy Magic?

Mmmm. Maybe. If that's how you want to play it. I would probably use Path of Spirit myself - but that's no real matter.

Aside: I personally would call qlippoths something from Path of Nonexistence (GURPS Thaumtology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 37)

Originally Posted by Icelander

Can anyone good with RPM rituals write up a sample Supernatural Bane bullet Charm that does an extra 2d pi (ideally added to the bullet damage for DR purposes, Follow-Up if that's imlossible) to any supernatural target?

Since most things are resistant to piercing - I wouldn't use that. Use crushing or impaling instead. The write up itself is pretty simple (as I showed above).

Originally Posted by Icelander

As a damage bonus with a weapon is a narrow category, there doesn't seem to be any incentive to cast a ritual giving a bullet Charm a bonus to damage only against a specific category of foes, when you can have an unlimited damage bonus against any target for the same energy cost.

This seems to lead to uninteresting results, as I find the idea of Werewolf Bane, Ghostkiller or Supernatural Slayer bullet Charms much more flavourful than Bullets of +2 to Damage. And while I might allow basic enchanted bullets that hit harder, I would like Bane bullets enchanted against specific foes to receive a substantially higher bonus damage for the same energy cost.

Again, you don't need to add damage bonus to increase the damage of a bullet charm. You can add the Damage modifier and do any amount of extra dice.

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

One rule hack would be to apply an advantage limitation as a discount on the energy cost. Accessibility Limitations or the Limited Defenses modifiers for defensive abilities would be good candidates.

Either set of limitations would give large discounts if the susceptible targets were defined narrowly. This could potentially become game breaking. The main downside for such limited banes is that charm slots would be wasted if used on an invalid target. To fully exploit the discount, the PCs would need to do their research and figure out what they are going up against. In my opinion, this would be very fitting for a monster hunters game.

Players may also try to break the game by claiming discounts on broad categories of targets. GM fiat will be required to establish balanced discounts. But this shouldn't be any more difficult than the GM calls RPM already requires.

Originally Posted by Icelander

I've seen write-ups for Rituals where the limitation rules are used, but I'm not sure what the official rules are for using Limitations as part of the RPM system. I'm very much in favour of it myself, but I want to avoid any pitfalls that playtesting might have revealed.

I wrote this up in Pyramid #3/66 (p. 38) as "Repercussive Rituals."

Originally Posted by Icelander

Should the Elder Sign be a Ritual in RPM terms or merely a symbol that, if properly drawn (with Symbol Drawing or maybe even Occultism with the right familiarity), triggers Dread in the appropriate beings?

I think you could do both - as you note below.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Of course, there's nothing preventing it from being both. Characters without Ritual Magery or even ritual magicians without time to gather energy can make use of the symbol to drivee off creatures with Dread, but when used as part of a Ritual, the Elder Sign reduces energy cost and the effects can be much greater than merely Dread, including banishment or binding, not to mention giving the those warded some much needed protection from terror, madness and the like.

How about something like anyone can draw it, but those with the right ritual can empower it and make it better. Perhaps a magic-based Elder Sign causes a Fright Check or outright damage, while a drawn one just triggers Dread

Originally Posted by Icelander

Has anyone written up Lovecraftian rituals or the protective effects of Elder Signs?

I wrote up Song of Glissande here

[Icelander]

For the purposes of Higher Purpose (Tradition), how broad should the tradition of the Nommo fish-men be?

Their magic is primarily useful for manipulating water and things that are found around islands, hunting, traveling and suchlike, but they also know Elder Signs and rituals to keep away the Things From Beyond that intrude into their world.

It's basically an aquatic variety of Druidic tradition, albeit a pretty dark and frightening one, and with a pretty self-serving goal, i.e. avoid being destroyed along with everything else, not a required ethos of protecting nature, like Druidism.

[Icelander]

According to the rules on 'stacking' spells, ritual magic cannot give a bonus to spellcasting, bestow Magery or Ritual Adept, etc.

What about skills that ritual magicians often learn, but which are not directly used for spellcasting, such as Alchemy or Symbol Drawing?

Can you enchant a Charm or Elixir that, smeared on a knife, makes it carve runes more precisely, deeper and clearer, for a bonus to Symbol Drawing?

Or use a ritual to make glassware perfectly attuned for certain concoctions, giving a bonus to Alchemy?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Icelander

For the purposes of Higher Purpose (Tradition), how broad should the tradition of the Nommo fish-men be?

Their magic is primarily useful for manipulating water and things that are found around islands, hunting, traveling and suchlike, but they also know Elder Signs and rituals to keep away the Things From Beyond that intrude into their world.

It's basically an aquatic variety of Druidic tradition, albeit a pretty dark and frightening one, and with a pretty self-serving goal, i.e. avoid being destroyed along with everything else, not a required ethos of protecting nature, like Druidism.

It seems like it's bordering on a broad scope Higher Purpose. I would probably charge 8/level for it. Elder Signs and Rituals is one Higher Purpose all on its own IME. The water magic and such would be another one. So charging for a Broad Higher Purpose and slipping in some extras seems fine to me.

Originally Posted by Icelander

According to the rules on 'stacking' spells, ritual magic cannot give a bonus to spellcasting, bestow Magery or Ritual Adept, etc.

What about skills that ritual magicians often learn, but which are not directly used for spellcasting, such as Alchemy or Symbol Drawing?

Can you enchant a Charm or Elixir that, smeared on a knife, makes it carve runes more precisely, deeper and clearer, for a bonus to Symbol Drawing?

Or use a ritual to make glassware perfectly attuned for certain concoctions, giving a bonus to Alchemy?

No. Magic cannot help with magic. The only thing I would (and have in the past allowed) is the enhancement of Places of Power to temporarily focus the energy giving a larger bonusd than normal.

You can use the rules for Traditional Trappings (GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 19) for things like that though. Perhaps even using Decanic Trappings (GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 36)

I also wrote up "magic foci" in Pyramid #3/82: Magical Creations (p. 24). That allows you to spend cash on items to increase your magic skill. From a single spell to all spells, they are pretty customizable. You can even get foci that give you ritual adept for the magic it covers.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

It seems like it's bordering on a broad scope Higher Purpose. I would probably charge 8/level for it. Elder Signs and Rituals is one Higher Purpose all on its own IME. The water magic and such would be another one. So charging for a Broad Higher Purpose and slipping in some extras seems fine to me.

Done.

Edward Alvin Smith (PC) can only make Charms and Elixirs, he can't cast rituals on the fly, but I suspect that the broadness of the Nommo tradition will still help him. After all, when PCs don't have access to Ritual Adept, magic is primarily useful as Conditional Spells anyway.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

No. Magic cannot help with magic. The only thing I would (and have in the past allowed) is the enhancement of Places of Power to temporarily focus the energy giving a larger bonusd than normal.

Right.

I thought I had seen it somewhere, but can't find it now. Are there rules for a character starting play with access to a Place of Power? Is it a Perk? An Advantage?

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

You can use the rules for Traditional Trappings (GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 19) for things like that though. Perhaps even using Decanic Trappings (GURPS Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 36)

I shall use both.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

I also wrote up "magic foci" in Pyramid #3/82: Magical Creations (p. 24). That allows you to spend cash on items to increase your magic skill. From a single spell to all spells, they are pretty customizable. You can even get foci that give you ritual adept for the magic it covers.

Right. Off to purchase that, I am, then.

Funny, when I read over the preview, I didn't find anything I thought was relevant to my game, as I'm specifically avoiding any hint of powers that indicate that one religion or another is true. So, magic items that are venerated as relics are fine, but relics that have holy power, as a power source separate from magic, are not allowed.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Icelander

Done.

Edward Alvin Smith (PC) can only make Charms and Elixirs, he can't cast rituals on the fly, but I suspect that the broadness of the Nommo tradition will still help him. After all, when PCs don't have access to Ritual Adept, magic is primarily useful as Conditional Spells anyway.

I assume he's got a limitation on his Magery and/or Ritual Adept (if he has that - though he likely doesn't need it given he isn't casting spells)?

Originally Posted by Icelander

Right.

I thought I had seen it somewhere, but can't find it now. Are there rules for a character starting play with access to a Place of Power? Is it a Perk? An Advantage?

I've been using my rules from "What's In a Lair" from Pyramid #3/86: Organizations. You could likely map out a cost for one by figuring the cost using the Power Pool/Enhancer (p. 11) then using the trading points for money schema to determine a character point cost.

Originally Posted by Icelander

I shall use both.

Cool.

Originally Posted by Icelander

Right. Off to purchase that, I am, then.

Funny, when I read over the preview, I didn't find anything I thought was relevant to my game, as I'm specifically avoiding any hint of powers that indicate that one religion or another is true. So, magic items that are venerated as relics are fine, but relics that have holy power, as a power source separate from magic, are not allowed.

I tend to shove niggly bits into all my work. That's one of them.

I'll also suggest you consider using Magical Components (GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic, p. 18) if hunting for more bonuses. You can reverse engineer the costs for different TLs by simply dividing the TL3 Starting Wealth into those values. Should be straightforward.

The "Incanter's Grimoire" from Pyramid #3/114: Mind Over Magic is also very useful for doing weird stuff in a RPM-based system. It is specific to that magic system, but most of it should pass through to energy-accumulating RPM just fine.

"A Familiar Path" from Pyramid #3/75: Hero's Jackpot contains lots of little rules for RPM and, of course, rules for having familiars for a caster.

The Ritual Path Magic tag on my blog may be of some service as well.