Yet more clarifying questions for RPM

[Zoomfarg]

My group and I are thinking about picking up an old GURPS campaign again, and as GM, I’d like to switch to RPM. Years ago, I liked Realm magic better than RPM, and now I can’t understand why. I think I misunderstood RPM back then. (I *do* like how easy Realms makes it to have different Realms schemes, but that’s a post for another time.)

Anyway, after reading through the book and pyramid 3/66 few times (plus the "post your rituals here" thread and some other RPM related threads), I have some clarifying questions. I apologize if any of them are covered in the text and I’ve just overlooked them.

Resistance Rolls

1. Penalty by caster margin of success? I saw a post on the “post your rituals here” thread that said that an attacker’s MoS was applied as a penalty on the subject’s/target’s resistance… is this RAW? Is it true of resistance rolls in general?
2. Are targets aware of resisting? Or is resistance automatic, and they don’t know that magic has affected them? (Except if they notice its effects)

Areas of Effect:

1. Entering/Exiting: How does entering or exiting the AoE of a ritual with duration affect people, specifically for rituals that affect subjects individually, like buffs or internal damage. Like, it’s obvious what happens if the ritual is, say, an AoE field of fire. But what about, say, a ritual cast on the area of a hospital to give patients bonuses to healing rolls? Do patients lose the benefit of the bonus when they leave the AoE, even if the effect is ongoing? Do new patients gain the benefit of the ongoing ritual? Or (for the most restrictive option) does the ritual only apply to the original subjects only while they remain in the AoE? Is it up to caster intent?
2. Expanded “Mental flagging”: RAW, you can mentally flag targets to be exempt from an AoE. This makes sense if you’re trying to hurt a lot of enemies in an area but save a few friends. But what about times that you want to *help* a few friends among a lot of enemies? Seems like a good alternative to “affect everyone except Alice, Bob, etc)” might be “affect *no one* except Alice, Bob, etc”, perhaps for an additional -1. Does this sound acceptable?

Wards

1. Spell wards and magically created materials—should wards protect against magically created stuff? Like a magically created rock that an attacker tries to chuck through the ward?
2. Wards and rule of 16: when the hostile spell encounters the ward, does the rule of 16 apply? Based on the ward? Based on the target within the warded area?

Gathering time:

1. Instant casting: by taking -10 for instant energy gathering, does that permit one single attempt? Or can multiple gathering attempts be made?
2. Is there any benefit to taking extra time on energy gathering attempts?

Incantations:

1. You can still work rituals while an incantation is active, correct?
2. For purposes of spell stacking, does being under the influence of an incantation count as being under the influence of the spell effects of the ritual the incantation was based on?
3. Since incantations are alternative abilities, they can’t be used simultaneously with each other or with Magery, right? Meaning that while an incantation is in use, the magery mana reserve cannot be used, and the caster cannot have charms or conditional spells, correct?

Dispelling:

1. Specific or general—when attempting to dispel another ritual, does the caster have to be aware of and target a specific ritual/spell? Or is a mass dispel permissible RAI or RAW? Like a huge AoE? (personally I’d prefer the former… mass dispel seems like shenanigans)

Under the hood:

1. Why is transform more expensive than create? Like, why is it easier to create a new body than add wings to a body that already exists?
2. Why is ritual mastery a perk, and not handled through techniques?
3. Why is there a cap on path skills?

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

My group and I are thinking about picking up an old GURPS campaign again, and as GM, I’d like to switch to RPM. Years ago, I liked Realm magic better than RPM, and now I can’t understand why. I think I misunderstood RPM back then. (I *do* like how easy Realms makes it to have different Realms schemes, but that’s a post for another time.)

Anyway, after reading through the book and pyramid 3/66 few times (plus the "post your rituals here" thread and some other RPM related threads), I have some clarifying questions. I apologize if any of them are covered in the text and I’ve just overlooked them.

Pyramid #3/66: Laws of Magic has some rules in there for mixing RPM and Realm Magic a bit. Which I'm sure you noticed.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Resistance Rolls
Penalty by caster margin of success? I saw a post on the “post your rituals here” thread that said that an attacker’s MoS was applied as a penalty on the subject’s/target’s resistance… is this RAW? Is it true of resistance rolls in general?

No. Resistance rolls in RPM are strictly a Quick Contest of your Path skill used to cast vs. the better of HT or Will plus Magic Resistance. You must win the Contest or the spell doesn't work.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Are targets aware of resisting? Or is resistance automatic, and they don’t know that magic has affected them? (Except if they notice its effects)

Unaware subjects automatically resist even if it's friendly magic! Tell your allies what you're doing. Those who've resisted know they've been affected by something, just not what.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Entering/Exiting: How does entering or exiting the AoE of a ritual with duration affect people, specifically for rituals that affect subjects individually, like buffs or internal damage. Like, it’s obvious what happens if the ritual is, say, an AoE field of fire. But what about, say, a ritual cast on the area of a hospital to give patients bonuses to healing rolls? Do patients lose the benefit of the bonus when they leave the AoE, even if the effect is ongoing? Do new patients gain the benefit of the ongoing ritual? Or (for the most restrictive option) does the ritual only apply to the original subjects only while they remain in the AoE? Is it up to caster intent?

Area Effect only affects those in its area. Anyone entering it will automatically try to resist the effects (even if beneficial unless told otherwise). They roll their Will or HT plus Magic Resistance against the margin of success of the initial spell. If it has a Duration it lasts until cancelled or the duration is up.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Expanded “Mental flagging”: RAW, you can mentally flag targets to be exempt from an AoE. This makes sense if you’re trying to hurt a lot of enemies in an area but save a few friends. But what about times that you want to *help* a few friends among a lot of enemies? Seems like a good alternative to “affect everyone except Alice, Bob, etc)” might be “affect *no one* except Alice, Bob, etc”, perhaps for an additional -1. Does this sound acceptable?

Inclusion of targets to be affected (instead of excluding allies and affecting everyone else) works the same way for the same cost. See GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic, p. 15.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Spell wards and magically created materials—should wards protect against magically created stuff? Like a magically created rock that an attacker tries to chuck through the ward?

No.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Wards and rule of 16: when the hostile spell encounters the ward, does the rule of 16 apply? Based on the ward? Based on the target within the warded area?

Rule of 16 always applies. It's based on the ward's Power vs. the will of whatever it is it is keeping out. If that's higher than 16 it gets lowered per the Rule of 16.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Instant casting: by taking -10 for instant energy gathering, does that permit one single attempt? Or can multiple gathering attempts be made?

You can make multiple attempts, each at -10 to the roll and can continue until you fail.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Is there any benefit to taking extra time on energy gathering attempts?

Not in bog-standard RPM, no. In Effect-Shaping you can take more time to get a bonus to your spell. If you want something similar for Energy-Gathering RPM then say "For each step (seconds to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.) you take then double the number of energy gathered for that one roll by x(Number of Steps plus one).

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

You can still work rituals while an incantation is active, correct?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

For purposes of spell stacking, does being under the influence of an incantation count as being under the influence of the spell effects of the ritual the incantation was based on?

If it is active it counts as a spell. Otherwise, if it's waiting to be activated it does not count as a spell on for the purposes of stacking spells.

'

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Since incantations are alternative abilities, they can’t be used simultaneously with each other or with Magery, right? Meaning that while an incantation is in use, the magery mana reserve cannot be used, and the caster cannot have charms or conditional spells, correct?

Incantations are not alternative abilities. They are are a form of conditional spell.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Specific or general—when attempting to dispel another ritual, does the caster have to be aware of and target a specific ritual/spell? Or is a mass dispel permissible RAI or RAW? Like a huge AoE? (personally I’d prefer the former… mass dispel seems like shenanigans)

Lesser effects must target one spell or ongoing effect. Greater effects can add Area of Effect and attack multiple spells at once. Use the best resistance roll vs. your skill for all spells or ongoing effects involved.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Why is transform more expensive than create? Like, why is it easier to create a new body than add wings to a body that already exists?

Because the creator deemed it more difficult. You can change it if you want. I wouldn't. Create is cheaper because it comes with penalties to make stuff whereas Transform has no such penalties and costs more.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Why is ritual mastery a perk, and not handled through techniques?

Because techniques were kind of ignored in GURPS Monster Hunters where ritual path magic originated. Perks were more acceptable. Later on I added more levels of Ritual Mastery and Rote Techniques for spells.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Why is there a cap on path skills?

Because that's what the creator deemed would limit it partially. You can remove it or rejigger it it you want. In my current hack of RPM ("Channeling") the cap is based on pure Will. You cannot have a Path skill higher than it.

[Zoomfarg]

Thank you for the replies!

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

No. Resistance rolls in RPM are strictly a Quick Contest of your Path skill used to cast vs. the better of HT or Will plus Magic Resistance. You must win the Contest or the spell doesn't work.

Okay this is what I thought... I think I was remembering one of those proposed rituals where people were un-RAW-ly using bestows a penalty.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Unaware subjects automatically resist even if it's friendly magic! Tell your allies what you're doing. Those who've resisted know they've been affected by something, just not what.

Gotcha, thanks!

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Area Effect only affects those in its area. Anyone entering it will automatically try to resist the effects (even if beneficial unless told otherwise). They roll their Will or HT plus Magic Resistance against the margin of success of the initial spell. If it has a Duration it lasts until cancelled or the duration is up.

Makes sense. I don't know why I was overcomplicating it

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Rule of 16 always applies. It's based on the ward's Power vs. the will of whatever it is it is keeping out. If that's higher than 16 it gets lowered per the Rule of 16.

Again... makes sense. I don't know why I was overcomplicating it

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

You can make multiple attempts, each at -10 to the roll and can continue until you fail.

Oh whoah! Seems pretty powerful, but the penalty is pretty hefty, so I guess that makes sense.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Not in bog-standard RPM, no. In Effect-Shaping you can take more time to get a bonus to your spell. If you want something similar for Energy-Gathering RPM then say "For each step (seconds to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.) you take then double the number of energy gathered for that one roll by x(Number of Steps plus one).

Gotcha--thank you!

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Incantations are not alternative abilities. They are are a form of conditional spell.

Sorry, I haven't gotten anything from the DF series until now--after your reply, I picked up DF 19. (The inclusion of the Summoned table is pretty great!)

I was actually trying to ask about "incantations" from your "Alternative RPM" article from 3/66, under the "Ritual Powers" heading.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Lesser effects must target one spell or ongoing effect. Greater effects can add Area of Effect and attack multiple spells at once. Use the best resistance roll vs. your skill for all spells or ongoing effects involved.

Gotcha

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Because the creator deemed it more difficult. You can change it if you want. I wouldn't. Create is cheaper because it comes with penalties to make stuff whereas Transform has no such penalties and costs more.

OH RIGHT that's a good point.

Actually that raises an interesting question... would it be appropriate to use the crafting penalties table when labor is involved, even for other spell effects?

Like say you've got a big chunk of marble and you want to use magic to carve it into a statue, or you're trying to dig a mining tunnel that would normally require laborers and engineers...

EDIT: to be clarify, I’m proposing that in some cases, maybe the Crafting Penalties Table could be used based on the wages for the value of labor that would otherwise have been used for what the ritual accomplished, like sculpting or tunnel-digging

Whenever labor is involved would probably be too broad... that would mean you'd have to--on the fly--convert every action that could be achieved by mundane methods into wages. That's definitely too much bookkeeping (literally). But it seems like maybe there's room to apply it outside of Create.

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice

Pyramid #3/66: Laws of Magic has some rules in there for mixing RPM and Realm Magic a bit. Which I'm sure you noticed.

I did! The thing I really like about Realm magic was the "dividing up the world" formula, so that different systems of division (ie different realm systems) were roughly cost-balanced. I liked being able to have different realm systems represent different magic traditions from different cultures.

RPM mentions using alternative paths, but since it doesn't have anything like Realm advantages RAW, it seems like you've got to have roughly 9 path skills in any system. I've been noodling how to deal with that.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Thank you for the replies!

No worries.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

Sorry, I haven't gotten anything from the DF series until now--after your reply, I picked up DF 19. (The inclusion of the Summoned table is pretty great!)

Nice.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

I was actually trying to ask about "incantations" from your "Alternative RPM" article from 3/66, under the "Ritual Powers" heading.

Ah. Ok. Then for your original question, yes. If you want to use more than at a time buy the most expensive, then the next most expensive, and so on with each additional one after the first allowing another power in the set to be used.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

OH RIGHT that's a good point.

Actually that raises an interesting question... would it be appropriate to use the crafting penalties table when labor is involved, even for other spell effects?

Like say you've got a big chunk of marble and you want to use magic to carve it into a statue, or you're trying to dig a mining tunnel that would normally require laborers and engineers...

EDIT: to be clarify, I’m proposing that in some cases, maybe the Crafting Penalties Table could be used based on the wages for the value of labor that would otherwise have been used for what the ritual accomplished, like sculpting or tunnel-digging

Whenever labor is involved would probably be too broad... that would mean you'd have to--on the fly--convert every action that could be achieved by mundane methods into wages. That's definitely too much bookkeeping (literally). But it seems like maybe there's room to apply it outside of Create.

I wouldn't. Seems too complicated for too little return.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

I did! The thing I really like about Realm magic was the "dividing up the world" formula, so that different systems of division (ie different realm systems) were roughly cost-balanced. I liked being able to have different realm systems represent different magic traditions from different cultures.

It is useful for that.

Originally Posted by Zoomfarg

RPM mentions using alternative paths, but since it doesn't have anything like Realm advantages RAW, it seems like you've got to have roughly 9 path skills in any system. I've been noodling how to deal with that.

7-9 is the sweet spot. Less than 7 and the paths are usually too powerful. If you do that though you can compensate by making them priced as WC skills. That about evens it. The same is true of 10 or more skills. It waters them down. You could make them all Hard skills and it would balance ok.

I also wrote recently about breaking down Path skills on my blog.