Questions while reading rules more accurately...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Lovewyrm

And moving a SIGNIFICANT DISTANCE EVERY SECOND would look DUMB!

The video I posted and the video Gollum posted both have fighters moving completely across the ring in a couple of seconds over and over. But whatever, they look dumb. Fighting is dumb, you should be doing something productive instead.

Time code related: 1:05
https://youtu.be/xTqzeMSBYFA?t=65

This is a garish and over the top video game. I can't possibly see how this is good faith evidence of anything in reality.

So it's pretty obvious you are trolling, and I'm done.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by thom

I've found your advice & comments very insightful/helpful over the years since I joined these forums. Can you expound more on what you mean by this?

Mainly I was considering the case of throwing a hand grenade back before it explodes. This is certainly possible, it's been documented as happening.

If you had two second turns you would only have a single turn to throw it back, since two seconds will have already passed on the the turn it was thrown. Therefore you need some way to take a Ready to pick it up, and an Attack to throw it.

[Lovewyrm]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The video I posted and the video Gollum posted both have fighters moving completely across the ring in a couple of seconds

Yeah but they're sticking together.
They're not retre...
Nevermind have your damn retreat bonus.
Move a nanometer: Retreat bonus.
Breathe out and your chest deflates increasing distance: Retreat bonus.
One fighter is on a 0.0000000001 degree decline and thus the angle between them is more obtuse: Retreat bonus.
A mote of dust flies between the fighters: obscure mist bonus.

Cause obviously it can't just be normal cinematic fighting 'in one hex' the moment they move around a little.
But maybe it's true. Maybe in 'advanced combat' people staying in one hex really ARE stationary and only wiggle the body around, fighting like stickpuppets and for any fight to be realistic or cool in 'advanced combat' you really have to derwish all over the hexmat. In that case egg on my face I suppose.

>video is garish
Not only is it not garish, but the timecode I posted is still relevant.
I even added a time to go to if the url encoding doesn't work, just to be sure.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by thom

I should also point out that when I stand in my living room and go "through the motions" of: fast-drawing a sword from my hip; moving a Step forward; and conducting a Rapid Strike against two foes, I'm much more comfortable with that taking two seconds than just one second...

Most realistic Fast-Draw techniques with a sword probably involve making a cut from the draw.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Mainly I was considering the case of throwing a hand grenade back before it explodes. This is certainly possible, it's been documented as happening.

If you had two second turns you would only have a single turn to throw it back, since two seconds will have already passed on the the turn it was thrown. Therefore you need some way to take a Ready to pick it up, and an Attack to throw it.

I've generally allowed all-out attack (ready, attack). Not specifically for this situation, there's a lot of cases where it makes sense.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Lovewyrm

Yeah but they're sticking together.
They're not retre...

Yes, they are.

Look at 1:29 for instance. An acrobatic retreating dodge (surely while all-out defending too).

I don't understand what you are looking for with that new post. Do you want to prove that retreating while dodging doesn’t exist in reality and in fictions? Or that all dodges use footstep (i.e., retreat) anyway? Do you want to demonstrate that the optional retreating rule doesn’t make sense at all?

The retreat option is not a rule that is missing. It is one more optional rule that we have if we want to use it. Which is not even a mandatory to play GURPS. The only rules you have to use when playing GURPS are those explained in the Quick Start section, page 8 and 9 of the Basic Set. “Got all that? Good. Now you can play GURPS. The rest is just detail.”, as it is written.

So, if you don’t like the Retreat option, no problem. Just drop it. GURPS will still work perfectly because it is precisely designed for that: you can use the options you like and drop the others to get exactly the flavor you want in your games. And if you don’t like GURPS, and prefer the way another roleplaying game handles things, just play that game. D&D is a great game too. I’m not kidding here. I really like D&D. As well as Call of Cthulhu or Fate.

But I like GURPS much more because he offers me many more options to make my character do exactly what I want him to do. The choice to dodge or to dodge and retreat with a true difference between those two kinds of defense is one more freedom, not a constraint.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gollum

I don't understand what you are looking for with that new post. Do you want to prove that retreating while dodging doesn’t exist in reality and in fictions?

Retreating dodges certainly exist. It's just that they actually result in retreating -- i.e. the fighter does not immediately step back towards the attacker, though the attacker may step forward to pursue.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Retreating dodges certainly exist. It's just that they actually result in retreating -- i.e. the fighter does not immediately step back towards the attacker, though the attacker may step forward to pursue.

The fighter does not immediately step back toward the attacker; he will step back on his turn. Untill then, a lot of things can happen ... The attacker may step forward to pursue, indeed, but he may also step backward to force him to move and attack (with a maximum effective skill of 9!).

So, retreating it is not free. It has a cost. And it gives your opponent some strategic opportunities.

[Lovewyrm]

Originally Posted by Gollum

I don't understand what you are looking for with that new post.

I'm looking for the normal dodge in GURPS, done in the same hex in response to an attack
But this normal dodge clearly does not exist in GURPS outside of body wiggling because any movement, any darn step is a retreating dodge and worthy of a bonus.

I'm done taking this on my shoulders though. If you cannot understand what I'm getting at at this point then I don't know what to say anymore.

But I'll summarize it again. Gawd. Not that it will enter any of your skulls.

You know what a fight is in Dungeons and Dragons? I'll tell you.
If it's not theater of the mind:
Two minis representing two creatures, stand on a battle mat, it's divided into squares.
The minis are facing one another on the same square. They don't move on the mat. They're inanimate tokens that just have some look to them, like an orc.

They're fighting though. The fight does not animate on the map, unless you physically move the pieces around like action figures, but even then: They're stiff.

Still, you're supposed to envision the fight between them as a fluid dance of blows, dodges, slides, parries, footwork. All while represented by standing, unmoving minis. They give and take space but for all intents and purposes they are locked in the fight.


Now, a battle like that in GURPS:
Two minis face one another on a hex mat. They are fighting.
But, unlike D&D, the fight is to envisioned STOCK STILL.
No footwork, no movement. No dancing. No nothing.
The minis AND the characters are standing stock still. The characters do NOT do footwork.

Why?
Because as Sir Puddings swordfighting video, and your analysis of it shows:
They're doing retreating dodges. Which would, on the mat, require the minis to move. Because they're giving and taking space.

They're not doing normal dodges that allow you to remain on the same hex.
Because they're walking and shuffling around. And that's retreating dodges, even all out defenses.

So if any movement like that is a hex shifting retreating dodge defense.
Then what IN THE NAME OF THE BLAZES is a STATIONARY fight in GURPS?
And what does a dodge in such a stationary fight look like?

Not dynamic with movement, that's for sure. It can only mean two automatons hitting one another like puppets, and godsknow how they dodge.
Can't move their damn feet after all or it would be 'a reteating dodge' and they'd have to move to a new hex.

inb4 noone getting this again (for whatever reason) and accuses me of trolling.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Gollum

The fighter does not immediately step back toward the attacker; he will step back on his turn.

I classify that as immediate. Having retreat consume your step for the next turn is far more consistent with actual retreating.