Spellcasting

[Shostak]

I have a grognard in one of my games who is a contributor on these forums and who is especially good at roleplaying learning new talents and spells. He works beginning to learn something into the unfolding story so that it both makes sense and is no surprise when his character learns something. Having set rules for such things has its purpose, but I am completely satisfied with his approach.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I have a grognard in one of my games who is a contributor on these forums and who is especially good at roleplaying learning new talents and spells. He works beginning to learn something into the unfolding story so that it both makes sense and is no surprise when his character learns something. Having set rules for such things has its purpose, but I am completely satisfied with his approach.

So, does he state a growth/learning path fo characters?

Example:
He has a character that's 1 IQ point shy of a talent. He states that his next Attribute will be IQ and then learning a certain talent when he gets the XP. Is that how he does it?

That way when the conditions are met to learn a talent, the character has the talent.

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I have a grognard in one of my games who is a contributor on these forums and who is especially good at roleplaying learning new talents and spells. He works beginning to learn something into the unfolding story so that it both makes sense and is no surprise when his character learns something. Having set rules for such things has its purpose, but I am completely satisfied with his approach.

Grognard here…. : )

Like TippetsTX and phiwum, I prefer to make a nod to Learning a Skill/Spell. I look at it as enriching the story. The TFT campaign I’ve been playing in has been running for several years now (thanks Shostak), so I have room to apply a Learning Time enhancement to my characters.

I had a merchant character that only had Knife Talent. He was sorely lacking in offensive combat. I often plan out what my character PC will want to spend XP on and decided he needed Sword Talent more than another attribute. Knowing roughly how many XP we would make each gaming session (unless something spectacular happens), I guessed it would take about 6 sessions before I gained enough to purchase Sword. So rather than just wait until the merchant got the XP and bumped up to Sword, I had my merchant request from one of the fighters in our group to train him in using swords, which that player agreed to. The next few games went by (about 1 to 3 weeks game-time), and my merchant reached his XP threshold. I used the extremely short ‘training’ as a way to transition into the Talent.

Another time I had a character that I determined needed his DX raised. I was building the PC's XP up to the point of cashing it in. It so happened that we were at a caravanserai with other caravans. In one of these teams was an oriental style NPC that did his morning ablutions and tai chi-like exercises. I had my character approach the NPC and asked to train a bit with him over a two day span. Then I had my character practice this in the mornings on his own until I had the XP to cash in. This allowed for an organic story tie-in when I did raise his DX.

I also have (only once) withheld going up the attribute or talent (I vaguely remember this incident, but I think it was ST) even though I had my XP to purchase said item, because I didn’t think the character had enough time to implement it as I had just mentioned it a few games before. Normally, that would have been OK, but I recall that I could have used the attribute/talent that very game. I sacrificed Power Play for good story continuity.

Along these lines I wrote an article, Learning Talents Through Books The Fanzine Trip #1, that tied how long it would take to learn a talent/spell to XP cost. There is no ‘# of weeks’ attached to learning, but the consideration that it will take time and effort.

Book-Study is meant to be a long-term commitment in a campaign game. … Book-study only covers part of the learning, the rest will come from apprenticeship, trial and error, continuous practice or other methods. One would still need to go to Mechanician’s Guild or Thieves’ Guild to finish certain talents. … When using book-study, normal Talent costs are 50% off. [So a Talent that normally costs 500XP would only cost 250XP with book-study or 1000XP Talent at 500XP.] … Unlike the normal way of gaining a new ability (ITL Legacy p45) where ‘you may use it immediately as it is assumed that you were practicing or studying during the time you were earning the experience points,’ book-learning mechanics takes time. … The GM needs to makes sure that reading of books is adequately represented in the campaign. Whether that is having the character read the material in at least 4 play sessions or having the player describe how the character is studying in longer narrative games.

If you are going to use book-study, you are committing your XP to that course of action.

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

So, does he state a growth/learning path fo characters?

Example:
He has a character that's 1 IQ point shy of a talent. He states that his next Attribute will be IQ and then learning a certain talent when he gets the XP. Is that how he does it?

Yes, something like that. So 1 IQ gain would be first. Then the Talent would be next.

• I would either keep what I am doing to myself, with subtle comments about practicing observation or reading constantly or other fluff that would suggest striving to increase IQ (then again, going up an IQ could be a normal consequence of life and not stated). In the meantime, I could hint at the character pondering about the desired talent while he is gathering XP for IQ or especially afterwards.
  
• Or I could mention my intent to the GM so he will know what my character is doing (and perhaps award some XP to my roleplaying that well.)
  
• Or I could mention to everyone my intent. That might happen when I get pressure from the other players to get a certain talent/attribute for our group.

That way when the conditions are met to learn a talent, the character has the talent.

The character only gets the talent/attribute point when I am ready to buy it, though. Even though I just got the XP to go up, I might evaluate that the character hasn’t had enough time or met conditions to go up yet. Turns out that group emergencies might trump my envisioned plans.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

I have a grognard in one of my games who is a contributor on these forums and who is especially good at roleplaying learning new talents and spells. He works beginning to learn something into the unfolding story so that it both makes sense and is no surprise when his character learns something. Having set rules for such things has its purpose, but I am completely satisfied with his approach.

It's recently become my policy to offer discounts on talents when GMing. So if a scene had lots of mucking about in boats then the players might be told, "Everyone gets 17 XP, an attribute costs 100 XP, a talent or spell costs 40 XP per point, if you want to buy Boating right now then it's 20 XP and if you don't have 20 XP you can buy Boating on credit." It's been a popular innovation.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

It's recently become my policy to offer discounts on talents when GMing. So if a scene had lots of mucking about in boats then the players might be told, "Everyone gets 17 XP, an attribute costs 100 XP, a talent or spell costs 40 XP per point, if you want to buy Boating right now then it's 20 XP and if you don't have 20 XP you can buy Boating on credit." It's been a popular innovation.

An interesting way to provide a "limited time offer".

[timm meyers]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

It's recently become my policy to offer discounts on talents when GMing. So if a scene had lots of mucking about in boats then the players might be told, "Everyone gets 17 XP, an attribute costs 100 XP, a talent or spell costs 40 XP per point, if you want to buy Boating right now then it's 20 XP and if you don't have 20 XP you can buy Boating on credit." It's been a popular innovation.

This is a brilliant idea. I am constantly searching for ways to promote "Roleplaying" over "Gaming" with players. I especialy like the -buying on credit- approach to giving immediate rewards for some heavy situational play.

My question, how often is there buyer's remorse? ie. 2 sessions later the player finaly pays off their boating talent buy and either want a different upgrade or feel discouraged that they have in essence not received xp for the last 2 games?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

It's recently become my policy to offer discounts on talents when GMing. So if a scene had lots of mucking about in boats then the players might be told, "Everyone gets 17 XP, an attribute costs 100 XP, a talent or spell costs 40 XP per point, if you want to buy Boating right now then it's 20 XP and if you don't have 20 XP you can buy Boating on credit." It's been a popular innovation.

That's a good way for a GM to provide some incentives for character growth that is linked to the narrative, but I prefer to leave character development up to the players.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

That's a good way for a GM to provide some incentives for character growth that is linked to the narrative, but I prefer to leave character development up to the players.

There's a spectrum between giving players complete freedom and complete restriction. Basically all systems limit characters by some kind of maximum power level. TFT also restricts by hero vs wizard and by talent/spell prerequisites. D&D restricts much more aggressively. My rule adds a gradient, pushing players toward some characters and away from others, but it's a minor effect compared with the restrictions already present in RAW TFT.