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Old 11-19-2021, 09:50 PM   #1
Von Ether
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Default Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

I'm just double checking the order of operations when several wrench results come up for a fire/explosion.

1. The first wrench die creates the effect and can not be defended against but it also does no base damage.

2. The remaining wrench dice immediately into basic damage dice and can be defended against.
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Old 11-20-2021, 08:27 AM   #2
NexusGameTheory
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

That is my understanding.
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Old 11-20-2021, 09:40 AM   #3
beetle496
 
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

If the targeted side is already on fire, and Damage Deck result is Fire, is that a fire someplace else or just next item in the DD list? (We played it as the next item [Power Plant] taking the hit.) A second fire would have had more entertainment value.

I am a little disappointed that, in a two player game, it seems like it very hard to get two fires started on one turn. Since one always has at least two control, in a two player game, seems like putting out fires is never a problem (at least not until the last or next-to-last turn). Am I missing something here?

Last edited by beetle496; 11-20-2021 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 11-20-2021, 12:35 PM   #4
baakyocalder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Sacramento metro, California
Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

The damage deck goes down in order. (rulebook, page 23, third paragraph) If something at the top of the list is not there, you move down the list.

As there can be only one Fire on each side, fire damage becomes regular damage if there's already a fire. So, you go down in sequence, if there's Fire on a card and that side's already on fire, move to the next item.

As for Control, keep in mind that Speed and Tires determine your base Control before items bought with Crew Points (this includes your crew) and Build Points modify it. 6 is the starting Control at speed 2, but go faster and you get less Control for Speed. As your tires go, you get less Control from your tires. It's not implausible to, after several rounds of combat and some bad driving rolls, be low on control in a 2-player game.

As for starting multiple fires in a two-player game in the same turn, well make sure you get two firing arcs on your opponent. That's probably front and the sides and have a side-mounted weapon or go with Thermite Grenades for your crew. This sounds like an experiment for my Superflash to try. . .
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Old 11-20-2021, 03:09 PM   #5
Sam Mitschke
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Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

@Von Ether
You are correct! One additional bit — if the targeted side was already on fire or your opponent was already out of control, then the first fire/blast result ALSO converts to a 1-hit result that can be defended normally.

@beetle496
Yes, you'll always have 2+ control AND you can freely choose to put yourself out of control to extinguish fires. Just keep in mind that, when you are OOC, you can only drive straight (no slight turns or maneuvers) and you do not get yellow defense dice for your speed. Do you deal with fire damage now and cripple your next movement/attack, or do you take the fire damage and keep your control tokens so you can make maneuvers and defend better this round?

To start multiple fires on your opponent in one turn, you would need fire results on two separate attacks on two different sides of their car. Note that this could happen as a result of the damage cards, and not strictly from fire weapons.

@baakyocalder
Exactly right regarding the damage card resolution — thank you!
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Old 11-20-2021, 07:15 PM   #6
beetle496
 
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

I am thinking that the Powerplant being able to catch fire (after the side is on fire, and only from rolling a Fire result from the Damage Deck) would be an entertaining house rule. Tires also being able to catch fire might be fun. (But I have not seen a roll which might implicate such a result.)

I do appreciate the end-game dynamic where a player has to choose between putting out a fire or being out of control! Multiple fires earlier in the match would have that same kind dynamic.
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Old 11-21-2021, 08:30 AM   #7
Sam Mitschke
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

We tiptoed around this concept a bit with the Anti-Power Plant Rocket, but we neutered the hell out of it. It *is* thematically fun, but risks utterly ruining the game. Directly targeting the you-lose-the-game meters makes ALL car builds irrelevant. It bypasses armor, structure, and everything on all damage cards. And it's the slipperiest of slopes...

Your builds are now predetermined, because why would you ever use anything else? While we're at it, why not make a weapon that deals damage directly to crew members? Perhaps a dropped weapon that simply removes an opponent's car from the game? Why not just decide that the first player wins?

I mean that as a sarcastic look down the barrel of this gun — not to pick on you or your suggestion, which comes from genuine enthusiasm for the game and is a logical train of thought to explore. But you would be amazed at the number of OG Car Wars fans that have begged us to put in game-breaking stuff just for funsies.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:00 AM   #8
beetle496
 
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

I appreciate your vigilance guarding against fun-for-one and the one-true-way.

Lucky shot being able to set the Power Plant on fire came up for me in just my second game. PP was at full strength at the time, so it being on fire would have been much more entertaining than it just loosing a pip.

If a player does have two fires, can they spend four control (if they have them) to extinguish both? That is the sort of situation where choices start to get interesting…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
…While we're at it, why not make a weapon that deals damage directly to crew members?
This happened with my group and OGCW. We were having fun with bikes (and biker gangs) when someone thought to pair a laser with the single-weapon targeting computer (I forget the name) and started to target the cycle drivers. It no longer mattered how many BP went into the cycle, as it was one-shot-one-kill. We were also older at that point, and the too-good-not-to-use tactic felt morbid and immersion breaking. We all laughed for the first shots though…

Last edited by beetle496; 11-21-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:57 AM   #9
Sam Mitschke
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

You can put out as many fires on your car as you can afford! If all four sides are on fire and you had enough tokens after the Take Control step, you could spend 8(!) control to put them all out. This is where the various fire extinguishing cards quickly reveal their value and versatility — anything that reduces that control expense can be very useful. Unless you're never caught on fire. Such is the eternal dilemma and gamble of building the perfect death machine...
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Old 11-21-2021, 04:38 PM   #10
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Default Re: Clarification on multiple fire/explosion wrench results

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
But you would be amazed at the number of OG Car Wars fans that have begged us to put in game-breaking stuff just for funsies.
I pride myself on being counted among the number who *didn't*.... :)
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