09-30-2016, 03:35 AM | #251 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
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Game authors do their best, but they are limited by house style, by a market which does not reward authors who show how they know what they know, and by being individuals not a whole research team. You were part of the playtest, so you had a chance to ask questions then ... and we are lucky that many people who have spent a lot of time and money researching are willing to write GURPS books for a tiny reward.
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10-03-2016, 08:27 AM | #252 | |||||||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
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Golems and even more, clockwork creations, imply that powerful mages can easily acquire metallurgy and smithing that would have been considered miraculous at our TL4. Elven steel, dwarven steel, enhanced 'hardened' bronze, orichalum, mithril, adamantine alloys and various other metallurgy-related products imply that there are a lot of high-quality options available for those who want better than TL3-4 steel. And it's easy to explain advanced metallurgy. Dwarves have an instinct for prospecting and mining, clerics of various Earth gods can commune with rock, stone and mine shaft, Earth elementals can be summoned to help with mining and processing ore, wizards and priests can analyse samples with as much precision as they can understand using simple spells and there are artificer mages who make swords or armour for the purpose of enchantments with purely magical methods, thus learning a great deal about the properties of the metals they use. Even bombards, rockets and gonnes have more than a century of history in known lands on Toril.* To be sure, at first among isolated cultures and working with very inferior (and dangerous) smokepowder, but there has been plenty of time to learn to work out the kinks in gunsmithing. Spelljamming vessels tend to be secretive about their true nature, but any polity with significant contact with those who sail the phlogiston technically has the possibility of trading with late TL4 / early TL5 smiths with full access to ordinary gunpowder*** and the resulting experience of gunpowder warfare. The smokepowder weapons coming into use now aren't the first experiments with a new technology. They can rather be said to represent a formerly niche product, pretty much restricted to those who were connected with the Spelljamming world or had some way of getting smokepowder reliably at an economically sustainable price, but that respected master craftsmen are now learning how to make to satisfy increased demand. *There are also several hundred years of history during a prior age of the decrepit Mulhorandi Empire, but divine politics resulted in some pretty strict bans on most of the more advanced engineering marvels of the Church of Thoth, including all smokepowder weapons. Even general knowledge of this period is now restricted to the upper echelons of the churches and specialised scholars and sages, while the technological knowledge and blueprints are kept as closely guarded secrets by the inner circle of the House of Tholaunt.** **The hereditary divinely-descended upper priesthood of the Church of Thoth. ***Which works in most places Spelljamming ships visit, even if it does not work on Toril. Quote:
I'd really like to see a clear gain in effectiveness when going from a powerful man-portable weapon to a mounted one with a crew of 2-3. I'm okay with poor long-ranged ball performance, but I'd really like to be able to get grapeshot and canister performance that approach historical figures from short-barrelled carronades. If 24-lb carronades could get around 200 oversized iron balls to over 1600 fps velocity, surely there's some hope for 1-lb and 3-lb swivel guns where the goal is to get from 27-100 lead shot of around a half-inch diameter (heavier for the smaller load) to a similar velocity? Quote:
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The PCs pay, feed and house their soldiers very decently. They even have a system of family death benefits and retirement benefits for those crippled during their service. Losing men is expensive. A soldier with three months of basic training and three months of in-unit apprenticeship is already a $5,000-$10,000 investment in trainers' time, as well as his CoL and salary, depending on his exact unit and background. Add some $5,000-$15,000 of PC-owned equipment he's wearing and carrying* and $10,000 to the family of a dead soldier or to support a crippled veteran, and you're up to pretty high numbers. If the soldier had to be given emergency clerical treatment and perhaps kept in a hospice for a year, one casulty can end up costing as much as $50,000. And that's not even assuming an experienced and valued soldier, NCO or officer. This may not sound much in modern terms, but I assure you that their war profiteering and shady mercenary dealings would not remain profitable very long if they often suffered massive casualties. Better by far to spend some money on causing casualties among the opposition and hopefully forcing them to abandon their war in the near future. *Which they would not charge his family for if it could not be recovered from his dead body. Quote:
The substance was first named 'smokepowder' when it appeared in the first, low-explosive, imperfectly mixed forms, where it ranged from REF 0.2-0.3 and produced a choking cloud of foul smelling smoke. Despite the much better varieties available a century later, the name stuck. Assuming non-magical guns and ignition, smokepowder guns still produce smoke like black powder firearms, but may perhaps be compared to the amount of smoke seen in the finest modern 'black' powder, with a burn rate and charge matching the barrel length. Quote:
While it is true that the PCs are looking to equip some new soldiers with them, those new soldiers will still be chosen from the most promising prospects among some 1,500,000 people.* *And those 1,500,000 being those who have survived the past half century of turmoil, strife and war (full-scale civil war since 15 years ago, invasion and conquest some two years ago), with 6,000,000 being a more reasonable population number for the recruitment area. The very young and the very old have mostly died, anyone unhealthy is dead and the living are pretty well self-selected for mental toughness, adaptability and willpower. Quote:
Some known incredients from some of the most well known recipies: powdered beholder eyeballs, sulphur harvested from an active volcano, fire crystals which only appear in one (monster infested) volcano range in the world, red dragon scales, amethyst dragon larynx (powdered), powdered remorhaz heat organs, essence of smoke mephit breath, diamond dust, ashes from the nest of a tshala, etc.
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10-11-2016, 04:23 AM | #253 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Names for cannons and other ordnance in FR
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Name Diameter Shot Weight Gun Weight Notes Stirge 1.2-1.4 in 3-6 oz. 30-150 lbs. Swivel-gun Naga 1.5-1.8 in 7-14 oz. 45-200 lbs. Swivel-gun Manticore 1.9-2.4 in 1-2 lbs. 60-330 lbs. Swivel-gun Bantam 1.2-1.4 in 3-6 oz. 200-300 lbs. Dragonet 2.4-2.9 in 2-3 lbs. 150-350 lbs. Swivel-gun Serpentine 1.5-1.8 in 7-14 oz. 300-400 lbs. Harpy 2.6-3.1 in 3-4 lbs. 330-660 lbs. Light gun Falconet 2.0-2.5 in 1-2 lbs. 500-700 lbs. Peryton 3.3-3.6 in 5-6 lbs. 500-900 lbs. Light gun Falcon 2.6-3.1 in 3-4 lbs. 670-1,200 lbs. Medusa 8-8.5 in 20-30 lbs. 500-1,500 lbs. Thayan bombard(L) Saker 3.3-3.6 in 5-6 lbs. 910-2,000 lbs. Wyvern 4.5 in 12 lbs. 1,350 lbs. Light gun Drake 4.1 in 9 lbs. 1,500 lbs. Light gun Wyrmling 5.1 in 18 lbs. 2,000 lbs. Light gun Eagle 4.1 in 9 lbs. 2,500 lbs. Dragon 5.65 in 24 lbs. 2,700 lbs. Light gun Griffon 4.5 in 12 lbs. 3,600 lbs. Roc 5.1 in 18 lbs. 4,500 lbs. Basilisk 12-12.5 in 60-90 lbs. 1-8 tons Thayan bombard(H) Basilisk --- $700,000 Dragon --- $425,000 Wyrmling --- $275,00 Medusa --- $225,000 Wyvern --- $220,000 Drake --- $150,000 Roc --- $130,000 Peryton --- $110,000 Griffon --- $100,000 Eagle --- $75,000 Dragonet --- $70,000 Harpy --- $60,000 Saker --- $35,000 Falcon --- $20,000 Falconet --- $13,500 Serpentine --- $7,500 Bantam --- $5,000 Manticore --- $3,500 Naga --- $2,000 Stirge --- $1,500 Note that none of these are exactly common and some of the larger cannon exist only as the work of a few master craftsmen or even only in prototype. The magical versions of the Thayvian bombards are not available for purchase by anyone not in the service of the Red Wizards. There exist alchemical emulations of their bombards (these are at the higher ends of the weight range given), but the prices might be much higher and the effectiveness might be less.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 10-15-2016 at 07:32 PM. |
10-13-2016, 04:01 AM | #254 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Cannon in FR
For the most part, cannon are not widely used in the Forgotten Realms. Bombards have been known for over a century, but early examples compared unfavourably to mages as weapons of destruction and accidents* around early experiments left a lasting prejudice against smokepowder among many people. Only in the last 15 years did that begin to change, with a combination of divine backing for the development of guns and the introduction of reliable, relatively safe smokepowder and handguns.
Large smokepowder weapons remain under-represented in the Forgotten Realms. Individual craftsmen and engineers may build marvellous examples, but the cost of smokepowder is so astronomical that no polity has been willing to adopt a military technoogy that requires the expenditure of many pounds of it per shot at the enemy. A master bronzesmith in the service of the Selkirk family of Sembia has for the fifteen years made some dozens of falcons and sakers to arm privateering ships owned by the family and their allies and business partners, as well as developing prototypes of heavier bronze guns, but not many buyers for such big guns exist. Being early designs, these Sembian guns are extremely long-barrelled and heavy. Experiments have revealed that with carefully cast bronze guns that have been magically checked for quality and consistency, it is not necessary to use such massive weight of metal. In addition, more consistency in smokepowder quality means that barrel length of 30 times caliber is not actually necessary for the propellant to burn up. Six years ago, a Lantanese alchemist and engineer built the first 9-pounder 'Drake', a light, but powerful bronze gun with a 6' long barrel. The island of Lantan is extremely unusual in that its small navy is extensively armed with smokepowder weapons and the 9-pounder Drake was adopted as standard armament for the most powerful Lantanese ships. Copies or stolen cannon were quickly adopted as chase guns by several pirate ships in the Nelanther Isles and wealthy privateers from Luskan, Baldur's Gate and (illegally) Waterdeep. Lighter bronze guns of this new light pattern, such as 'Harpies' and 'Perytons', emerged from Lantan shortly thereafter. In 1370 DR, a light 12-pounder with only a 5' long barrel, dubbed the 'Wyvern', was the subject of intense public interest in the Tashalar after a marvellous schooner put into port with three pirate prizes and reports of burning a flotilla of piratical vessels under a pirate 'Admiral'. It was reportedly not built in Lantan, but the design principles behind this light 12-pounder are clearly analoguous to the high-quality bronze guns coming from there. The absolute height of smokepowder weapon technology are the new Lantanese 24-pounder 'Dragon' and its slightly smaller cousin, the 18-pounder 'Wyrmling'. These are short, like the Wyverns, only 13 calibers in barrel length, but they fire their huge round iron balls at low supersonic velocities and can penetrate the hull of any ship afloat at a thousand yards. So far, the Lantanese navy has only fielded a single prototype 'Dragon' chase gun on a new ship designed to fire a single powerful cannon, but they have adopted four of the slightly smaller 'Wyrmlings' on their four most powerful existing ships. Another exception to the limited military impact of cannon in FR are Thayvian bombards. Not only do the Thayvians themselves use them fairly extensively, but they even supply inferior versions of them to pirates on the Sea of Fallen Stars, their allies in Mulmaster and 'freedom fighters' in Unther. Thayvian bombards are closer to late 18th century or early 19th century howitzers or mortars than they are to historical bombards. Muzzle velocity is low and fire at moving targets is difficult. Metal shells filled with Alchemist's Fire can reap terrible destruction aboard ships that sail within firing range, however. The Thayvians also like to use magical shells that unleash area of effect destructive spells on impact. Fireball shells are popular, but perhaps the most terrible one is the Cloudkill one, which kills by means of a lethal toxic gas. Thayvian bombards exist in three versions. There is the magical version, the manufacture of which is a highly controlled secret of the ruling class of Thay, the Red Wizards. These bombards are less than 10 years old. These are very light for the weight of shot, the light model weighing only 500 lbs. and throwing a shell of 20 lbs. or a stone projectile of 30 lbs. They also don't require any propellant, as they propel their projectiles magically. This obviously means a great saving, enough to allow Thay to arm their navy with light bombards and even spend massive resources on magical shot. So far, no one outside Thay has managed to reverse-engineer their magical construction process and it may be that this is impossible for any power that does not have the wizardly resources and organisation of Thay. Then there is the older (dating back to at least 1350 DR), now the 'export' version**, which is an alchemical weapon, but not a smokepowder one. It instead uses a liquid propellant which seems to be related to Alchemist's Fire, but burns faster, fast enough to propel low-velocity bombard shot. The REF of the explosive liquid is 0.5, which is lower than smokepowder, but it is much more efficient in short-barrelled bombards than even fine grained smokepowder. Maximum velocity is achieved using only about 1/12th of the weight of shot. Even with the cost of $1,000 per pound of the substance, this means that shells filled with Alchemist's Fire can be worth firing, especially considering what they do to ships. Most of these liquid propellant bombards are quite heavy and mounted in seaside fortresses with fixed aiming points, to defend approaches to the ports. An ally of the PCs, however, is experimenting with using the liquid propellant for 12-lb to 24-lb short-barrelled, low-velocity cannon, much like historical carronades. The third variety is an unlicensed copy using smokepowder, which emerged in 1359 DR, shortly after some priests of Gond were able to investigate Thayvian bombards among the pirates of Immurk's Hold. These bombards are mostly used by pirate lords out of favour with Thay, most of whom rarely fire the weapons, due to the massive cost of the smokepowder. These bombards range in quality from dangerously amateurish to quite good. Light guns of up to 3-lb are usually enough to threathen ships on the Inner Sea. While no navy fields smokepowder cannon of any size, a fair number of Calauntan, Mulmastran and Sembian vessels have one or two small guns for emergencies. Such small guns also have applications for monster hunting and pintles and traversing firing platforms for such guns are unusually advanced for a TL4 world. Swivel-guns are particularly popular among adventuring sailors for shooting down flying monsters, competing with muskets, wall guns and heavy bore rifles in that role. This is particularly effective if combined with a ship's mage or enchantments, as that enables much more accurate fire at longer ranges, as well as lethal explosive shells with magical fuses. The 3-lb 'Dragonet' is a Thayvian swivel-gun using the same liquid propellant as Thayvian bombards, which has been rushed into service in the Thayvian fleet in the current year, 1373 DR, as dragon attacks have increased dramatically, due to an ongoing 'Rage of Dragons', some sort of magical effect which drives dragons insane with fury. The Dragonet is longer-barrelled (in comparison with caliber) than Thayvian bombards and operates at the maximum velocity possible with the alchemical liquid propellant, around 900 fps. Loaded with grapeshot, it is a potent deterrent for the smaller types of dragon, and firing solid cannonballs or a magical bomb, it can theoretically seriously wound or kill even a big dragon at short range. *Not actually accidental. Mages can be conniving rascals and some of them do not like anything that allows the common people anything approaching the power of wizards. **Only supposed to be supplied to a few 'trusted' allies of Thay, such as certain factions among the pirate lords of the Sea of Fallen Stars and the most effective forces fighting Mulhorand in Unther.
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Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela! Last edited by Icelander; 10-13-2016 at 05:36 AM. |
10-14-2016, 08:56 AM | #255 | |||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
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The spreadsheet gives the 12-pounder Napoleon 6dx7 pi++ instead of the 6dx5 pi++ that it is statted with in GURPS High-Tech. Before using the spreadsheet for cannon damage, then, I need to work out how to get the model to be consistent with that (presumably realistic) canon Dmg for cannon. Quote:
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10-15-2016, 06:40 PM | #256 | ||||||||||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
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On the other hand, note that the Roman legions specifically aren't the type of 'heavy infantry' that Kromm was talking about. Roman legions are heavy infantry in the sense of Mass Combat, but they do not wield heavy weapons that require ST 12+. Those who do are the Varangian guard with axes, Swiss guard with halberds, doppelsoldners (double-pay experts in mercenary companies with ten years or more of longsword training) with two-handed swords, etc. They are tiny minorities even among the comparatively small percentage of the populations who can be accounted as professional warriors and it is very reasonable to assume that people would not be numbered among them if they could not manage the weapons. Quote:
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The lifestyles of certain groups of people were designed, consciously and unconsciously, to train boys and young men to be elite soldiers in certain traditions. The games and sports they engaged in while boys were military training; the hunting and riding they delighted in as young men in peacetime were continuing military education. Quote:
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In GURPS terms, that's higher ST, either just Lifting ST or general ST. I wouldn't hesitate to give the average soldier +1 or +2 Lifting ST, but the elites who are chosen to wield special weapons, like two-handed swords or halberds, will simply have higher ST than the average soldier. Quote:
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Also, note that just because there is no FP cost listed for a single lift of maximum press over a character's head, it should not be assumed that this is effortless and can be done for an infinity. Moving at full move, punching at full power or shooting a warbow on a combat time scale doesn't cost FP for each individual action either, but it's nevertheless extremely tiring. It's just less tiring than redlining the system so hard that it will render you unconscious in less than half a minute, which is what the rules for lifting heavier weights than 12xBL imply. There aren't any generic rules in GURPS for assessing FP costs for physical effort over time, but I'd personally look at the Digging, Running and Swimming rules to adjudicate extended lifting or dragging.
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10-18-2016, 02:26 AM | #257 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Recoil padding
In the absence of rubber, what is a good material at TL3-4 for making the end of stocks softer and better at absorbing felt recoil?
Curved wood stocks like Pennsynvania long rifles really hurt with a decent caliber and even a fairly normal musket stock is less than comfortable with heavy bullets at the upper range of historical black powder velocities. Leather or fabric are possibilities, but I'd want something that was possible to keep fairly dry and clean with proper care and wasn't a breeding ground for diseases. Something that would be suitable for shipboard service.
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10-18-2016, 04:56 AM | #258 |
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
Semi-disposable cork but plates, leather you have mentioned but maybe laminated or stuffed with horse hair or wool. Another possibility would be complex basket weaves of hemp/sisal/linen rope. Oilskin or oiled canvas with padding.
A more complex leaf spring maybe, torsion and compression springs for that matter. Alternatively padding could be part of a soldier/sailor/marine's uniform. Horn might work but it may be too susceptible to water damage Just ideas anyway
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10-18-2016, 08:27 AM | #259 |
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Ellicott City, MD
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
Natural rubber has been in use since prehistoric times. In a setting where alchemy is actually a thing, somebody would have tried adding sulfur and heat along the way, and you should have vulcanization available. If it counts as a Trade Secret, adjust the price as necessary.
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10-18-2016, 08:35 AM | #260 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Emerging smokepowder weapons in my fantasy
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When they do, it will probably be for mechanical artillery. Padding will have to be made from something locally available for the time being. The climate locally is Mediterranean Levantine, more or less.
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cabaret chicks on ice, forgotten realms, low-tech, mass combat |
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