New Reality Seeds

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Can we make the USA communist? I mean, without the direct intervention of Alien Space Bats. Although I suppose that we could allow slightly flappy cross-time manipulation.

Yeah, let's say that Centrum decides that they're going to try and make a Communist States of America in order to start out their english-speaking meritocracy. Any thoughts?

Keep Franklin Roosevelt out of office so that more extreme leftism has more of a chance to take hold?

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Can we make the USA communist? I mean, without the direct intervention of Alien Space Bats. Although I suppose that we could allow slightly flappy cross-time manipulation.

Lenin-2 is one such parallel; the Haymarket Riots snowballed into a revolution, and the USA become the United Socialist States of America in 1876.

Of course, by the time Infinity found the timeline civilization had crashed and the biosphere was in the process of following, but who's to say it's the only such worldline? We've already seen echoes of Reich-2 and Centrum.

[patchwork]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Can we make the USA communist? I mean, without the direct intervention of Alien Space Bats. Although I suppose that we could allow slightly flappy cross-time manipulation.

Yeah, let's say that Centrum decides that they're going to try and make a Communist States of America in order to start out their english-speaking meritocracy. Any thoughts?

My biggest thought would be, why does Centrum think the USA and not Britain is the way to go on this worldline?

Jello's Reds! is another excellent take on this subject...s/he observes that socialist revolution is hard in a liberal democracy, because people tend to think they can solve their problems by voting no matter how much evidence accumulates to the contrary...so liberal democracy has to be crippled before a successful American revolution can be organized. Accordingly, they have the 30's fall under the Klan and President Theodore Balbo before the socialists liberate it; WWII is largely cast as the socialists against the fascists, with the socialists winning; and a depressingly familiar early Cold War, since Marxism-Deleonism and Marxism-Leninism actually don't mix very well at all without a Hitler to unite them.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by patchwork

My biggest thought would be, why does Centrum think the USA and not Britain is the way to go on this worldline?

Jello's Reds! is another excellent take on this subject...s/he observes that socialist revolution is hard in a liberal democracy, because people tend to think they can solve their problems by voting no matter how much evidence accumulates to the contrary...so liberal democracy has to be crippled before a successful American revolution can be organized. Accordingly, they have the 30's fall under the Klan and President Theodore Balbo before the socialists liberate it; WWII is largely cast as the socialists against the fascists, with the socialists winning; and a depressingly familiar early Cold War, since Marxism-Deleonism and Marxism-Leninism actually don't mix very well at all without a Hitler to unite them.

A common enemy can unite all sorts of otherwise mutually hostile factions.

[fchase8]

In one of the Wild Cards books, the joker Chalktalk took ace The Black Shadow to an alternate reality with a USSA, where I believe communism swept Europe and then America, and imperial Japan is the big anti-communist power (including in Latin America).

One of the reality seeds in Alternate Earths 2 was revolutionary Russia defeating Poland in the end days of WWI, postulating that communism could have swept into post-war Europe (with Trotsky as an alternate Napoleon - it actually sounded similar to the Wild Cards USSA).

After a devastating war - or during one - is the most opportune time for revolution. If the American Civil War could be delayed and be even more destructive, it could possibly inspire a communist revolution in the north and/or south. The workers of America could unite, or it could result in several different people's republics, including a socialist Appalachia and rival white & black southern republics (the result of a slave rebellion that succeeded in one place and not the other, then mass migration), while California, Utah and the like went their own way.

[Prince Charon]

Pulp-7, 1940
(Name can be changed, if anyone has a better idea)

In 1935, this worldline was a fairly ordinary historical echo, only of interest due to the date, and its location on Quantum 3, the same level as Reich-5. Then, there was a minor reality quake. At first, it seemed to have had no significant effects, but a few months later, the observation team heard a radio report about a mechanical man rampaging through Times Square. Further investigation determined that it was no hoax.

The reality quake has caused part of Pulp-7's population to manifest Gadgeteering. Exact numbers are unknown, but Infinity currently estimates that 1 in 10,000 are 'normal' Gadgeteers, and 1 in 50,000 or so are Quick Gadgeteers. The advantage is often accompanied by Talents like Artificer, Mathematical Ability, or Natural Scientist, sometimes at quite high levels. Demographic distribution shows a higher density among the educated classes, though it is not exclusive to them, and does not seem to favor nations beyond simply having lots of educated people (though it may simply be that the ones who aren't educated never become known, due to lack of opportunity).

Exotic advantages (super-powers) other than Gadgeteer and Gizmo are available, though in nearly all cases, they were achieved as a result of exposure, voluntary or not, to the superscience experiments of the Gadgeteers. Many of these abilities are psionic in nature, but not all. A fair number of psychics and other super-powered individuals have begun dressing in costumes straight out of the funny-books, and fighting or committing crimes. In Europe and Asia, the costumes are generally more practical, though not always less colourful, at least for those who aren't easily killed by bullets.

Weird War Two started more-or-less on schedule, though Poland did not fall until October 18th, 12 days later than on Homeline, and the Phoney War is a bit less phoney, and a lot more strange.

Interestingly, superscience tech created by the mad scientists here mostly still works off world, as do powers induced by them, which increases Infinity's concerns, and those of several Homeline nations that wish to become seriously involved, preferably before Reich-5 finds this world.


Thoughts?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by PTTG

Can we make the USA communist? I mean, without the direct intervention of Alien Space Bats. Although I suppose that we could allow slightly flappy cross-time manipulation.

Yeah, let's say that Centrum decides that they're going to try and make a Communist States of America in order to start out their english-speaking meritocracy. Any thoughts?

You'd need to work in the 19th century. In many ways the USA in the late 19th century was more open to communism than any European nation. In fact many 19th century communists thought America would go communist first!

The best way to proceed would be to have a charismatic ACW general (picture an intellectually and morally serious version of Gen. W. A. Custer) decide that the only way to save America is to go communist. Have him stress that Marx in his pamphlet On The Housing Question plainly espoused views fully in line with American Freedom of Religion (this is true). The Post-ACW period is the last time a major third party could have been formed in US history, so it could work.

Centrum however would be unlikely to have anything but disgust for a wild an zany late 19th century communist America.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by johndallman

There's a book all about this one: Back in the USSA, by Eugene Byrne and Kim Newman. Some hunting may be needed for a reasonably priced copy, but the Wikipedia article has a pretty good summary.

The notion that a communist USA would exactly mirror a communist Russia is truly Alien Space Bat. Similarly Eugene V. Debs was a far more decent and compassionate man than Lenin was ever claimed to be. And, unlike Lenin, Debs lived his life in a democracy, if a flawed one, and preferred democracy, whereas Lenin despised the idea of democracy. As for Al Capone being Stalin, Capone was never that bloodthirsty. Al killed freely and with little feeling but only for pragmatic reasons. Stalin was infinitely worse.

Frankly a USA that went communist ahead on anyone else might be a rather straight laced place, but it would likely be far more democratic than the USSR ever could have been.

[Astromancer]

Try this idea, on a world we'll call Krypton-X13, a parallel well outside of the standard Infinite Worlds coordinate system, events roughly like those of the Wild Cards books occurs. The mutagen causing superpowers was spread by Alien Space Bats of enormous power.

One of the mutant supermen gained the power to move sideways in time (He thinks that he traveled across the universe to a world made identical to Earth by the people of Atlantis, and that the local stars are real whereas everyone on Earth saw illusions generated by Atlantean techno-magic). The Quantum6 world he reached never had humans on it until now.

With aid from his sister (whose super power was networking, with her telepathic and charismatic powers networking is an AWESOME superpower) he has brought large numbers of people from the USA and Canada to a series of colonies on this world. Due to the violent wars carried on by half-crazed supers, many people were willing to escape to an Atlantean space colony. The networks Gate Guy's sister (Network Woman?) got in contact with were left-leaning Union people and academics. They left from the years 1973-1987 from an Earth that was at war from 1959 onwards.

Gate Guy and his close allies haven't been able to return to this world since 1987, the local year is reckoned as 2009, the local stars say the year is 1623.

The population is living in this world's Southern California. Due to a much cooler climate than our Earth, this is a rainy area with abundant crop yields. The local technology is a weird mix of TL7, TL7+1, TL8, and some superscience gizmos. The local population uses little if any fossil fuel, although they process oil for the petrochemicals. There are settlements in Hawaii, New Zealand, Australia, China, Morocco, and Spain.

TL8^ Airships are the main transport links. The California settlements have a population of around three million, each of the other six major areas has between fifty and two hundred thousand people. There are other settlements, most have only about a few dozen people. A few have a couple of thousand people. All the major groups are Democratic Socialists, all but a few of the smaller groups are too. The exceptions can be nasty.

Homeline, Centrum, and the Cabal, are highly interested in this world because the population is full of low level supers. Telepathy, ESP, Probability Control, and PK, being the most common powers, but exotics show up. Problem, the most powerful supers tend to be delusional. If the super has more than 400 character points, they tend to be wacky. The more power, the less connected to reality.

Added Bonus: The local flora and fauna is pretty much Pleistocene stuff. All that dangerous exotic megafauna is in place.

[Drifter]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

You'd need to work in the 19th century. In many ways the USA in the late 19th century was more open to communism than any European nation. In fact many 19th century communists thought America would go communist first!

The best way to proceed would be to have a charismatic ACW general (picture an intellectually and morally serious version of Gen. W. A. Custer) decide that the only way to save America is to go communist. Have him stress that Marx in his pamphlet On The Housing Question plainly espoused views fully in line with American Freedom of Religion (this is true). The Post-ACW period is the last time a major third party could have been formed in US history, so it could work.

Centrum however would be unlikely to have anything but disgust for a wild an zany late 19th century communist America.

But won't this communist America have a lot going for it? In Centrum's terms that is. It speaks English, its dominant culture is very dominant (although I don't know if this society would be ethnically cleansing Native American's like Homeline did).

Now, would this communist America see political and/or individual freedom as a thing? I would think the "communist" part of communist America would think a strong centralized government is important. And Centrum would love to see a strong centralized government.

I'm not understanding how Centrum would see late this timeline as wild and zany and disgusting - any more than it sees any other timeline it has access to that is.