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Old 01-24-2021, 08:52 PM   #11
JohnPaulB
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Speaking of bard, where does ACTOR fit in, what would this talent do and what benefit does it get? Is this script acting or does it include improvisational as well?

The Bard was a bard, wasn't he?

Can a MASTER ACTOR be an outstanding entertainer and pull together other actors into an ensemble for an acting troop? Would he need BUSINESS SENSE or ADMINISTRATOR or DIPLOMACY to organize and keep a troop together?

Also, does SINGING fit under IQ 8 Mundane 1 point?
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:39 AM   #12
DeadParrot
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

While the current version of TFT is a 2019 publication, the game is basically a look back at how RPGs were written 40 years ago.

My D&D Men and Magic booklet from the same era lists 3 classes: Fighting Men, Magic Users, Clerics. Every other character concept is left as an exercise for the GM and Players to work out. Not all that different then the Hero/Wizard choice in TFT.

If you want a Bard 'class' then use the Thief profession as a guide and work out a collection of talents and maybe a few spells. If your Bard is in the Hero class, might consider a few spells as 1 point options. Possible spells for this might be Look Your Best and Persuasiveness if you are going with the more modern RPG version of Bard being a 'Face' character for a group. A Wizard class Bard might have a few talents that are also 1pt cost, Bard talent for example. It both cases, you might want a cap on the number of spells/talents that can be purchased at reduced cost.
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:55 AM   #13
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Agreed with the preceding message; a great strength of TFT is that you can find your way to almost any character concept you'd like to name - usually easily and obviously. It is also true that you can find your way to a common character 'trope', like the D+D Bard class, by several different paths, depending on your personal conception of what such a character should look like.
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Old 01-27-2021, 11:32 AM   #14
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Agreed. One can build, through various combinations of other talents, a bespoke version of Bard for a particular character.
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Old 01-27-2021, 11:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

If your character learned spellcasting at Bard school (or apprenticeship) can they use their musical instrument as their staff and singing for their spellcasting ritual?

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Old 01-27-2021, 02:28 PM   #16
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Let's not let this fly off into petmunchkinprojectland.
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Old 02-04-2021, 10:21 PM   #17
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
If one looks at the talent entry for Thief, it says that it is not a talent at all, but a profession. So why isn't Bard the same?
That seems an excellent idea. It makes a lot of sense, increases player choice and greatly reduces the stereotyping in the present Bard talent.

One issue: In practice buying even a modest subset of those talents is going to cost a fortune compared with Bard. Basically 1 memory point is a lot, but TFT doesn't have anything cheaper than 1. There's probably a lot of talents in TFT that could be justified at a price of 1/2.
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Old 02-08-2021, 07:50 AM   #18
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Three versions of a 32-point bard without the Bard talent.

Courtly Bard
This stereotypical bard character, has ample Face skills so as to be valuable in play, yet enough ST and DX to be viable in a game that features regular combat—though clearly not a frontline fighter.
ST 10
DX 11
IQ 11

Talents:
Charisma (2)
Courtly Graces (1)
Literacy (1)
Mimic (1)
Mundane Talent: Musical Instrument (1)
Mundane Talent: Singing Expert (2)
Poet (1)
Sword/Knife (2)
Medic Bard
This a cappella entertainer sacrifices combat readiness for healing capability and an alternate layer of interpersonal skills.
ST 10
DX 11
IQ 11

Talents:
Charisma (2)
Detect Lies (2)
Knife (1)
Literacy (1)
Mundane Talent: Singing Expert (2)
Physicker (2)
Poet (1)
Rogue Bard
This character combines strong vocal ability and original lyrics with sneakiness.
ST 10
DX 11
IQ 11

Talents:
Charisma (2)
Knife (1)
Literacy (1)
Locksmith (1)
Mundane Talent: Singing Expert (2)
Pickpocket (1)
Poet (1)
Silent Movement (2)
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:17 PM   #19
Anomylous
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Professional musician weighing in:

I think of Bard / Master Bard as being talents representing musical training, which includes not only the technical knowledge of how to play an instrument and/or sing, but also repertoire, theory, how to play as part of an ensemble, stage presence and etiquette... You could cover all that with a simple "mundane talent" but me and my mostly-complete Master of Music degree might be a little offended!

I also think that the +1 to reaction rolls for Bard talent (+2 for Master) is ENTIRELY appropriate. I can cite multiple occasions from my own experience where my musical skills opened doors for me, literally or metaphorically - not even limited to formal auditions; basically, people have heard me making pretty noises, gone "oh we want more of that!" and invited me to their Thanksgiving dinners or whatever. Now, imagine how much more often that might happen in a world where you can't conjure a perfect rendition of any song you can think of, out of the shiny gadget in your pocket...

Over in the Mundane Talents section, 3 IQ points for "full mastery" (hah!) of one musical instrument seems pretty fair, in terms of the amount of time and effort it takes to acquire that level of skill. However, for character building I'd say: let IQ points spent on Bard talent "count towards" instrument mastery - so a Master Bard (with a total of 4 points invested in Bard talents) has "fully mastered" one instrument (3 points) and dabbles in another (1 point), or is reasonably competent on two (2 points each).

TL;DR I like the Bard talents as they stand.

Last edited by Anomylous; 02-11-2021 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:40 AM   #20
David Bofinger
 
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Default Re: Why the Bard Talent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
Three versions of a 32-point bard without the Bard talent.
In RAW, Bard costs 2, and Bard is an incidental talent, something your character can do in addition to their real job. But when the talent is cut up into many 1-point talents it has a tendency to turn into something expensive that can only be justified by making it the core of a character. The courtly bard example has spent 5 points just on bardlike talents. But most TFT games don't focus on music enough to make it worthwhile.

I'd like to make some of these talents cost half a point. Otherwise I'm not sure what should be done.
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