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Old 12-14-2020, 07:43 PM   #31
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

Ranged combat based on Per? Sure, I could see that. Melee combat based on Per? No, I would not allow that.
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Old 12-15-2020, 03:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Ranged combat based on Per? Sure, I could see that. Melee combat based on Per? No, I would not allow that.
I might allow it if accuracy and precision were specifically important, like with pressure point attacks, or if special 'chi senses' were required for targeting.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:24 AM   #33
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

Just because I got confused by terms being misapplied earlier, I want to take a post to clarify. Even if only for my own (future self's) sake later in the discussion.

Attribute Subtitution is a Perk you can find on page 15 of Power Ups 2. Each time you take it, you select one Skill that meets certain guidelines relevant to both
  • the Attribute or Secondary Characteristic upon which the Skill would normally be based
  • the Attribute or Secondary Characteristic upon which you want the Skill to be based
  • with which the GM aggrees

and learn the Skill using that second Attribute/Secondary Characteristic as the base. As Plane already acknowledged, you aren't going to be able to use this for IQ-based Karate.

Skill Adaptation can be found in Power Ups 2, on page 17, as well as Martial Arts page 51. This Perk is about basing a Technique off the "wrong" Skill. As long as it makes sense in the setting, the Techniques usual default shifts from its normal Skill to the one named in the Skill Adaptation. How many Techniques are affected varies according to the circumstances (and GM permission); it may be all Techniques from a particular Skill, just one, or something in between.

There, now I'll remember. I tried not to go into too much detail, for the usual reasons.

Getting back to the actual discussion, it is important to remember that a situation where you can justify making a Skill roll based on the non-default Attribute or Secondary Characteristic isn't really the same thing as Attribute Substitution. The rules already encourage handling Skills in such a nuanced manner (p. B172).

I can see allowing something like Attribute Substitution: Guns (Rifle) based on Per, but not Attribute Substitution: Bow based on Per. The latter just has even more physicality, to the point I don't think it can be ignored. For melee combat, things like accuracy and precision are most definitely part of Dexterity. If we bring in an exotic, additional "sense", it depends on how it is being handled. Using Karate via a chi-based sense because of situation specifics sounds more like p. B172. If it is how the campaign works in general, it is just a setting switch, or maybe "Esoteric Karate" needs to be a thing in your setting. The latter seems quite appropriate if Chi is a full-on Attribute or Secondary Characteristic.
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Old 12-16-2020, 10:34 AM   #34
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

Coming back around to healing, its possible one reason it doesn't come up much is that it isn't that useful in combat. It costs FP and healing a little bit at a time is really ineffective, so you want to take a deep breath, heal all of your buddy's wounds at once, and then lie around exhausted for an hour. And if the genre calls for access to fast healing, then fast healing can be gotten through through other means.
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Old 12-16-2020, 11:23 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by coronatiger View Post
I'm not sure I'd allow Regeneration as an alternative ability to any insta-use advantage. Regeneration heals so and so many HP in a day, and won't be noticeably affected by switching it off for a few seconds.
I started a thread that asks about this.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?p=2358445
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
It costs FP and healing a little bit at a time is really ineffective, so you want to take a deep breath, heal all of your buddy's wounds at once, and then lie around exhausted for an hour.
And if the genre calls for access to fast healing, then fast healing can be gotten through through other means.
If you're thinking of an alternative like Affliction: Fast Regeneration, you're still talking a 1-second delay until it recovers their HP, which in a fast-paced fight could be the difference between life and death.

FP is less of an issue if you have Regeneration (FP) to fuel it, or you get any FP you spend back the next second (Magical -10% limitation, use in Very High Mana) or you take Reduced Fatigue enhancements to get a certain amount of "free healing".

On that note: here's a fun 0% build for Healing...

Ranged +40%
Reduced Range 1/10 -30% (10/100 max becomes 1/10)
Blockable -5%
Parryable -5%

Reduced Fatigue 2 +40%
Capped: 2 FP -25%
Inaccurate 3 -15%

Own Race Only -20%
Injuries Only -20%
Reliable +8 +40%

Not as flexible but does give you free 4 HP shots and it's super-easy to make those IQ rolls.

Another way to save would be to shift the FP cost to the target instead of the healer. There appears to be precedent for that in Powers 151 (Healing Drug and Universal Antibodies)

It seems to be an option if you shift IQ to HT that you can choose that to mean the target's HT instead of your own.

In that case, it appears that instead of consciously choosing the FP spent on the ability, the FP spent is randomly determined by the HT roll: MoS FP are spent to heal MoSx2 HP unless they reach full HP at which point no extra FP is spent.

That would actually be super valuable if you knew an ally was injured but not the exact amount of FP they were missing: you wouldn't have to guess, and potentially overshoot wasting FP.

I would assume for this you could still buy Reduced Fatigue to reduce the cost. You can definitely use Reliable to add to the subject's HT roll as UA shows.

One big drawback to the Affliction approach is the high cost of Cumulative, and the ability to "stock up" on rapid heals would be important if you took the "Triggered Delay" enhancement on either advantage.
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Old 12-22-2020, 12:37 AM   #37
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

A possibility for emergency use would be Affliction (Advantage, Unkillable 1, +500%) [60]. As an alternative ability, it would run 12 CP, and it would be a good way to stabilize people who had suffered mortal wounds until you could heal them.
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Old 12-22-2020, 02:29 PM   #38
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
It costs FP and healing a little bit at a time is really ineffective, so you want to take a deep breath, heal all of your buddy's wounds at once, and then lie around exhausted for an hour. And if the genre calls for access to fast healing, then fast healing can be gotten through through other means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
If you're thinking of an alternative like Affliction: Fast Regeneration, you're still talking a 1-second delay until it recovers their HP, which in a fast-paced fight could be the difference between life and death.
Well, any setting in which you can heal up in a single day has fast healing: that's what I'm referring to. In a dungeon crawling game, you can buy the healing ability, but all you're really doing is saving your party a number of potions. That's nice, but its not terribly exciting. So do you pay 30 character points or do you just buy and carry potions?

Most settings in which healing up everyone within a day are appropriate have a back-up method besides spending 30 points on the healing advantage. And because character points are precious, and because those 30 points don't give any real combat benefits, people tend to go for those back up methods.
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Old 12-22-2020, 04:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Well, any setting in which you can heal up in a single day has fast healing: that's what I'm referring to. In a dungeon crawling game, you can buy the healing ability, but all you're really doing is saving your party a number of potions. That's nice, but its not terribly exciting. So do you pay 30 character points or do you just buy and carry potions?

Most settings in which healing up everyone within a day are appropriate have a back-up method besides spending 30 points on the healing advantage. And because character points are precious, and because those 30 points don't give any real combat benefits, people tend to go for those back up methods.
I wouldn't consider it a given that there's a viable 'back-up' option that doesn't also need to be bought with character points. Dungeon fantasy of the 'no magic shoppe' variety might make healing potions too rare for routine use. In some kinds of Urban Fantasy, psi stories, or supers such items may be nonexistent or functionally unobtainable.

Even in 'full magic shopping trip' mode I've personally never seen a dungeon-delving bunch who thought doing all their healing with potions was cheap enough. (Though more efficient consumables could tip that the other way.)
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Old 12-23-2020, 12:19 PM   #40
Otaku
 
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Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Healing

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Well, any setting in which you can heal up in a single day has fast healing: that's what I'm referring to. In a dungeon crawling game, you can buy the healing ability, but all you're really doing is saving your party a number of potions. That's nice, but its not terribly exciting. So do you pay 30 character points or do you just buy and carry potions?

Most settings in which healing up everyone within a day are appropriate have a back-up method besides spending 30 points on the healing advantage. And because character points are precious, and because those 30 points don't give any real combat benefits, people tend to go for those back up methods.
Eh, maybe it is because I haven't done enough dungeon crawling pen-and-paper RPGs, but can't we take that approach to anything a particular player doesn't find exciting? You can literally outsource almost everything for a dungeon crawl, if your PC is rich enough and the GM doesn't object. Oh! That's a campaign idea; you're not the real adventuring party. The PCs are all wealthy types who just enjoy dungeon crawling for fun (and sometimes profit), and so hire NPC (or other PC) adventurers to accompany them!
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