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Old 01-14-2021, 12:28 AM   #1
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

MA81 limits this attack to feet/legs of standing foes, or any part of a lying foe.

Could you treat a sword as a "lying foe" if you were able to force it to the ground?

example clip

Like normally you target a FOE with a "takedown" attempt (or 'force posture change' in TG) after grappling, but what if your intention is only to bring the weapon (perceiving the weapon as a character perhaps?) to the earth and not that weird other character who just so happens to have ahold of them?

In terms of setting up the sword to take more damage (you're bracing it in a vulnerable position) I'm also wondering if in Technical Grappling terms you could spend Control Points to add damage when stamping the sword.

This is a weird situation because if a sword were lying perfectly flat I don't really think you could do much to it at all, it's only when it's elevated enough to buckle in the middle that snapping it via a stamp is feasible.
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Old 01-14-2021, 01:14 AM   #2
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

That is a real technique (Fiore dei Liberi taught it). Getting the weapon stuck in the ground or under your foot is more likely than breaking. No idea on the mechanics but Doug Cole's technical grappling might be an area worth exploring. Its a special case of 'after beating or parrying you can manipulate their limb/weapon.'
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:16 PM   #3
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

You could also look into the Disarm mechanics. The GURPS manoeuvre is a kind which I never saw taught in the real world, where you try to strike the weapon away, but this is kind of close.

If you built it as a Technique, it would have "special setup: targeted weapon must have attacked a target below the Groin or suffered a Beat for at least -2." And the Grabbing a Weapon rules would be a good way to represent what usually happens if you manage to step on their blade.

In practice, the most important thing is knowing the rules well enough that if a player tries this, you can tell them something plausible to roll and create an ad hoc ruling if they succeed. Being able to invent some appropriate mechanics is way more important than stopping a fight scene to flip through books.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:22 AM   #4
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

The problem I have with the idea of this (as portrayed in the cartoon) is the weapon breaking before the wielder's grip on it does. And that's before even get into the point about a lot of sword blades being pretty flexible in the direction shown

However i'd just do this an attempt to break the weapon with a stamp (or more realistically a disarm attempt with a stamp) done after a successful bind weapon with the stick
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:00 AM   #5
Dexion
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

In the example with Uncle Scrooge I will says that he parry the sword attack, does a disarming/bind maneuvrer or an armed grappling with his cane to place the blade on the floor and when it does, Uncle Scrooge does an all-out attack (strong or determined) kick to break the sword.
In this case of bladed forearm it's a good way to snap the blade. Because she can release her grip on the blade.
It's how I will resolve the thing.
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Old 01-16-2021, 02:56 AM   #6
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexion View Post
In the example with Uncle Scrooge I will says that he parry the sword attack, does a disarming/bind maneuvrer or an armed grappling with his cane to place the blade on the floor and when it does, Uncle Scrooge does an all-out attack (strong or determined) kick to break the sword.
In this case of bladed forearm it's a good way to snap the blade. Because she can release her grip on the blade.
It's how I will resolve the thing.
Ohh I missed that the blade was not part of a sword with a hilt being gripped by a hand, but rather attached to her arm (what is that a false arm or some kind of Patar type thing).

Sorry yes that means what I said about the grip failing before the blade is not relevant here
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Old 01-16-2021, 03:38 PM   #7
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Stamp Kick to Sword Snap?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
what is that a false arm or some kind of Patar type thing
still here

Black Heron's right arm was replaced with a mechanical one, and has a retractable katar-ish thing which extends from the forearm, yeah.

It's basically hands-free AFAIK though she is only seen making a fist with that hand when it's extended so I guess it's possible that might be required and prevent you from holding objects in the hand while using it.

I'm wondering if dismantling built-in devices like these might have similar rules to unfastening gauntlets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
That is a real technique (Fiore dei Liberi taught it). Getting the weapon stuck in the ground or under your foot is more likely than breaking.
Stuck in ground would be more probable with soft earth, I expect that didn't happen here because of it being a concrete sideway that a blade tip couldn't penetrate.

When you force it down laterally unless they've still got some forward thrusting momentum, probably isn't going to be that much force going parallel with the sword towards it's tip though: the direction Scrooge redirects it is more towards the flat.

I could see that having to do with reaction speed of the redirected attacker: if you realize Scrooge has parried your katar and is redirecting the attack from him to the sidewalk, perhaps you could pull back your thrusting force so you're less likely to either penetrate the ground (if soft) or blunt/break the tip of your weapon (if hard) ?

The cane only seems to be serving role of preventing lateral movement to lift the sword up (and maybe some slight friction to prevent pulling it back: but that would be easy to overcome)

It seems like what amplifies the damage is similar to how you would pull down a stick with both hands on the tips while pushing it up with the knee...

like can be seen done murdering wood baseball bats here

basically where an upward knee on a falling bat would normally knock the bat into the air (sort rolls with the blow, some of the force is taken as knockback instead of damage) the hands prevent that: not merely helping accelerate the bad down for a harder collision but also preventing it from rebounding upward

which seems like it's probably something like using a Grab and Smash (damage bonus equal to Control Points in TG) as that's roughly what you do to heads in thai knee strikes

except in the case of Scrooge: instead of his hands preventing the blade from moving away from his stamp, he instead immobilizes the blade using the ground and Heron's own arm.

It seems like proxy fighting in a sense but with positioning more than grappling to blame (grappling merely sets up the positioning) since you could in theory not have the cane touching the sword at all and still get that snap effect if Heron were in that position at the right moment.

This made me think of Cole's "Setup Attacks" (Pyramid 3-52 Delayed Gratification) except instead of limiting it to getting the benefit of a defense penalty, why not other benefits?

-1 to all Opponent's Defenses per MA91 would be a -4 technique, just like MA90 charges for getting a damage bonus equivalent to AOA:strong, so what about allowing a Setup Attack's benefit to opt for "damage bonus on next attack from me" instead of "defense penalty on next attack" ?

That could represent "I'm changing my or my opponent's position in a way to allow me to create more damage from the following attack"

This could be offset be sensible +1 drawbacks to cheapen the penalty, like needing another success roll or needing a parry/grapple first to redirect the weapon (ie like a Beat)

Setups only last until end of attacker's last turn though if you don't attack, so we're not home-free yet. We'd need some kind of benefit like "Setup Attack benefit lasts indefinitely until target does X" which might be "successful roll to Break Free of Ground"

The ground being used in this way might be thought of as using "Pass Limb" in some sense of how it aids the cane in impeding the path of motion? Being able to pass limb immediately after an Armed Grapple Striking at Weapon could just be something like a Combination.
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