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Old 03-03-2021, 09:43 AM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Creature ST from size in hexes

Adult humans avg ST 10 and 150 pounds. sqrt(150/1.5) = 10

Large 1-hex figures are 300 pounds, hence avg ST 14 (c.f. Reptile men and gargoyles)

2-hex figures are around 1000 pounds, hence avg ST for a horse or centaur should be ST 25

3-hex figures are up to 2000 pounds, ST 36 (which is near but not at the top of Giant ST)

4-hex dragons weigh 3000 pounds hence their ST isn't 45 like it ought to be.

Oxen also weigh up to 3000 pounds (a 2-hex animal?) and so have predicted ST of 45 vs listed ST 40.

Elephants/mammoths weigh up to 13,000 pounds and have predicted ST of 93, vs listed maximum ST of 75
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Old 03-03-2021, 12:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Adult humans avg ST 10 and 150 pounds. sqrt(150/1.5) = 10

Large 1-hex figures are 300 pounds, hence avg ST 14 (c.f. Reptile men and gargoyles)

2-hex figures are around 1000 pounds, hence avg ST for a horse or centaur should be ST 25

3-hex figures are up to 2000 pounds, ST 36 (which is near but not at the top of Giant ST)

4-hex dragons weigh 3000 pounds hence their ST isn't 45 like it ought to be.

Oxen also weigh up to 3000 pounds (a 2-hex animal?) and so have predicted ST of 45 vs listed ST 40.

Elephants/mammoths weigh up to 13,000 pounds and have predicted ST of 93, vs listed maximum ST of 75
Yes, I guess if you assume a direct correlation between ST and size in hexes, you come to results that don't match RAW. Sometimes, grabbing assumptions out of thin air can have that result.

If you're really keen on this notion, then any hero with ST 14 has to be represented as two hexes and then he gets to trample.

But why would you use a sqrt in your calculations? I'm not suggesting you shouldn't. I just don't get why you do. I don't get how ST is related to mass. I can kinda see the relation between mass and area as something like
m = (sqrt(A)) ^3
for a first ballpark figure, but going from there to ST is unclear to me. (Surely, it's not just because the numbers work out for humans? The numbers would also work if you take mass and divide it by 15, after all.)
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Old 03-03-2021, 02:11 PM   #3
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

ST is openly quadratic in some places in the rulebook and more obscure in others.

See maximum weight that can be lifted at ITL 65 for example.
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:44 PM   #4
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

The ST attribute covers multiple things, and creatures are made of widely varying stuff, so I'm thinking a ball park estimate is good enough for most purposes.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:35 AM   #5
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

Seems to me most creatures fit the model pretty well. Dragons are a bit of an outlier, but dragons are long thin wyrms so you'd expect them to be weaker than their hexes suggest.
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Old 03-08-2021, 06:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

If dragons do have the weight from their size then the defense of "I'm not fat, just fluffy" no longer applies.

WMG: Cidri dragons fly (and breathe fire) because they are full of hydrogen (or at least methane) gas.

This explains why their nests aren't overrun with pests as the dragons are fume-a-gators.
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Last edited by hcobb; 03-08-2021 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 03-16-2021, 01:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Adult humans avg ST 10 and 150 pounds. sqrt(150/1.5) = 10

Large 1-hex figures are 300 pounds, hence avg ST 14 (c.f. Reptile men and gargoyles)

2-hex figures are around 1000 pounds, hence avg ST for a horse or centaur should be ST 25

3-hex figures are up to 2000 pounds, ST 36 (which is near but not at the top of Giant ST)...
Hmm. Real-world adult horses vary in weight from 400 to 2600 pounds. Are you going to make a Percheron horse a 4-hex figure to fit your formula?
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Old 03-16-2021, 03:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Hmm. Real-world adult horses vary in weight from 400 to 2600 pounds. Are you going to make a Percheron horse a 4-hex figure to fit your formula?
Horses have their hex sizes reduced because they're not as aggressive as dragons.

ITL 88 gives a draft horse ST range of 26-38, while the formula (from draft horse weight of 1,400 to 2,000 lb) gives a ST range of 30 to 36 and the 2600 monster horse is ST 41 or 42.
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Last edited by hcobb; 03-16-2021 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 04-13-2021, 09:29 AM   #9
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

What is the relation between area and weight in your calculations? I wanted to extend the pattern to seven and fourteen hexes, but I can't see where weight comes from. It scales linearly from two hexes on in your examples.

1 hex: either 150 or 300
2 hexes: 1000
3 hexes: 2000
4 hexes: 3000
7 hexes: 6000? More?
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Old 04-13-2021, 10:10 AM   #10
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Creature ST from size in hexes

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
What is the relation between area and weight in your calculations?
Fact checking that:

Elephant is up to ten hexes at up to 15,000 pounds while the above says 10,000 pounds.

Curve fitting in excel gives that the best fit is 300 pounds times the size in hexes raised to the 1.7th power.

14 hex dragon is then 13 short tons which is within the high end range estimates for T-Rex.

Code:
Hexes	Actual #	Calc #	Calc ST
1	300	        300	14
2	1000	        975	25
3	2000	       1942	36
4		       3167	46
7		       8200	74
10	15000         15036	100
14	30800         26640	133
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Last edited by hcobb; 04-13-2021 at 10:19 AM.
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