TbaM, WeaponMaster cost breakdown

[Nymdok]

For a Wuxia type game Im thinking of starting, Id like to be able to break down the Trained By a Master and Weaponmaster into some relative point costs.

For example Id like to know how much TbaM is worth if you can NOT

1/2 Rapid strike Penalties
1/2 Multiple Parry Penalties
Have Access to Cinematic Skills Abilities

In my head it seems like

12 pts - 1/2 RS Penalty (40%)
12 pts - 1/2 Parry Penalty(40%)
6 pts - Unusual Background that grants access to other abilities (20%)

but Im having some difficulty balancing this breakdown with Weapon Master.

Thanks,
Nymdok

[Desthro]

If its broken down into parts, it should cost a little more, +3 when using rapid strike is kinda like +3 to all weapon skills, but not as often since you won't rapid strike constantly, I would put it at 20 points, just because that is an amazing benefit combat-wise.

Half the parry penalty is nice, but this really only comes into effect when fighting more than one opponent, I would put this at the price of an enhanced parry, 10 pts.

And access to skills, call it 5 points.

[lexington]

I thought acting as a prerequisite was generally not worth any points.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by lexington

I thought acting as a prerequisite was generally not worth any points.

It's basically a Perk, worth 1 point.

[DukeofDellot]

Or an unusual background costing whatever the GM decides.

[Nymdok]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

It's basically a Perk, worth 1 point.

I should have phrased that as 6 points Unusual Background that grants access to Supernatural Abilities.

Ill edit it to eliminate the confusion.

Nymdok

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

I should have phrased that as 6 points Unusual Background that grants access to Supernatural Abilities.

Ill edit it to eliminate the confusion.

Nymdok

I'll rephrase for clarification.

Being a prerequisite for a skill is basically a Perk, worth 1 point for each skill and for each Technique.

[Þorkell]

Weapon Master has:
1/2 Rapid strike Penalties
1/2 Multiple Parry Penalties
Have Access to Cinematic Skills Abilities
A sweet bonus to damage.

When I buy it for characters I make I'm after the first two and the last bit.

[PK]

It's been said repeatedly that "provides access to cinematic abilities" is not something that makes up X points of either WM or TBAM. If either does not provide access to cinematic abilities in your game, then they don't. It doesn't change the cost.

The ability to get half-penalties for Rapid Strike and multiple parries, both unarmed and with melee weapons, is worth 30 points. Buying into that 30 point advantage is (by default) considered to open up cinematic skills and abilities as well, but that's because TBAM is acting as a prerequisite.

It's not like you're paying Y points for the abilities I just mentioned, plus X points for access to cinematic skills, where X+Y=30. No, it's that in most settings it makes sense to limit chambara-type skills to "the best of the best," and TBAM and WM are logical ways to determine that.

If the GM wanted to give everyone access to cinematic skills, and wanted to know a fair value for this, the answer would be "0 points." Even Martial Arts only charges a 1-point UB to have such a skill in a world where the average person can't normally learn it -- and that's not because the skill needs balancing; it's an artificial way to set up a divide between those who can and those who can't learn it.

Consider Exorcism. Anyone using it is at a -4 penalty unless they know Blessed, True Faith, or Power Investiture. So let's say Abe takes Blessed [10] -- now he can use Exorcism freely. Bob takes True Faith [15] with the same effect. Carl takes Blessed and True Faith for [25] -- should he have gotten a discount? If, "Allows user to use Exorcism fully," were part of the point cost, the answer would be yes... but it isn't. Blessed is worth 10 points for its divination abilities, and nothing more. True Faith is worth 15 points for its protective abilities, and nothing more. The Exorcism penalty is removed because taking either one labels the user as "a holy man."

And that's how TBAM/WM work. Taking either one labels you as "a martial arts mater," opening up chambara skills. But that's not what you're paying for -- you're paying for the inherent benefits of each advantage.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Nymdok

For example Id like to know how much TbaM is worth if you can NOT

1/2 Rapid strike Penalties

Using the Accessibility guidelines in Powers, you're removing about 1/2 the utility, so I'd say -20%.

1/2 Multiple Parry Penalties

Again, that's the other half, so -20%.

Have Access to Cinematic Skills Abilities

-0%. "This advantage acts as a prerequisite" never adds to the point cost. That's what Unusual Backgrounds are for, and neither TBAM nor WM is at all related to UB.