Weapon Master vs Trained by a Master

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Would this keep WM (All) at 45 or 60?

45 points. I'm suggesting that Unarmed should be considered just another weapon.

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Considering that the WM bonuses for parry and rapid strike are almost +3 skill, and that is easily 12pts a piece for hard unarmed skills, AND you get access to cinemtic traits and skilsl requiring BAM as a prerequisite?

Or for 20 points you can do the same with a Quarterstaff PLUS a damage bonus of +2 per Die.

The guy who pays 20 for Weapon Master (Any One Weapon) beats the snot out of the guy who pays 15 points for Weapon Master (Unarmed) 90% of the time.The other 10% of the time, it's because he doesn't have his weapon. ;)

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by aesir23

45 points. I'm suggesting that Unarmed should be considered just another weapon.

Or for 20 points you can do the same with a Quarterstaff PLUS a damage bonus of +2 per Die.

The guy who pays 20 for Weapon Master (Any One Weapon) beats the snot out of the guy who pays 15 points for Weapon Master (Unarmed) 90% of the time.The other 10% of the time, it's because he doesn't have his weapon. ;)

Would Unarmed gives generous defaults also?

For a specific account, would Ninja Weapons be 35, or pushed up to 40 since ninjas do fight unarmed?

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

Would Unarmed gives generous defaults also?

Well, since Unarmed skills don't really have defaults, this wouldn't apply. But I'd say that Weapon Master (Unarmed) would give it's bonuses to Unarmed attacks using Dex.

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

For a specific account, would Ninja Weapons be 35, or pushed up to 40 since ninjas do fight unarmed?

In this specific case I'd say that adding Unarmed to Ninja Weapons would still be a Medium group.

There are other cases where Unarmed might push a group of weapons into a bigger category.

[Verjigorm]

[QUOTE=aesir23;1268599]45 points. I'm suggesting that Unarmed should be considered just another weapon.[

Or for 20 points you can do the same with a Quarterstaff PLUS a damage bonus of +2 per Die. [quote]

You can't conceal a Quarterstaff, it can be broken, taken from you, etc. Also, One Weapon, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't cover multiple skills.

Now, if you pay 15 points to have Karate only, fine. But if you pay 15 points to get Brawling, Karate, Boxing, Judo, Wrestling and Sumo? Thats not fair at all.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

You can't conceal a Quarterstaff, it can be broken, taken from you, etc.

Sure, there are good reasons to have Unarmed combat skils. But fists and feet are still among the least effective weapons in the game. If concealment is important to you, take weapon master Knife, or Weapon Master Baton.

For the price of TBaM, you can have Weapon Master (Improvised) and fight with chairs, ladders, and jackets like Jackie Chan.

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Also, One Weapon, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't cover multiple skills.

You are mistaken, Weapon Master covers all skills for the weapon. Weapon Master (Katana) covers uses with Broadsword or Two-Handed Sword, for example.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

You can't conceal a Quarterstaff, it can be broken, taken from you, etc. Also, One Weapon, if i'm not mistaken, doesn't cover multiple skills.

One Weapon is not One Skill. One Weapon is One Weapon - a Katana or bastard sword can be wielded with Broadsword or with Two-Handed Sword, and Weapon Master (Katana) would apply to the Katana with both skills, but NOT to the Bastard Sword with Either skill.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by aesir23

Well, since Unarmed skills don't really have defaults, this wouldn't apply. But I'd say that Weapon Master (Unarmed) would give it's bonuses to Unarmed attacks using Dex.

Kinda forgot that...

Originally Posted by aesir23

In this specific case I'd say that adding Unarmed to Ninja Weapons would still be a Medium group.

There are other cases where Unarmed might push a group of weapons into a bigger category.

I can definitely see that being true, but it seems we are assuming Unarmed is one weapon, and should apply things accordingly

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by kirbwarrior

I can definitely see that being true, but it seems we are assuming Unarmed is one weapon, and should apply things accordingly

Yep, that's my hypothetical position.

I could certainly imagine borderline cases where 1 more weapon is all it takes to push a category from medium to large. Small to medium even more often.