New Fantasy Setting Seeds.

[Kymage]

I am reminded of the short story "The Road not Taken" by Harry Turtledove, where a society that thinks it has an advantage due to a technology not discovered by the other society, Humans in this case, discovers that a Matchlock/black powder weapon equipped army doesn't fare well against an army with automatic weapons despite the one technology they have.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw

Generally when I want Sword to go up against Gun, Sword is backed up by superhero-level martial arts.

One of my aphorisms for superhero settings is "Never take a gun to a sword fight". If you've got a superhero or supervillain who uses a sword in a gun rich environment then clearly they are either a quickly dead wanna-be or they have an answer for guns. Of course guns can be a shock even in a superpowered setting if they've never seen them before. For example in Sexy Sect Babes, guns are a game changer when introduced into a cultivator setting. But still, the most powerful cultivators need much more powerful technology to threaten them and less powerful cultivators quickly learn tactics to counter guns once the surprise wears off.

Personally I lost interest in GATE, after a few episodes because it was such a curb stomp against the fantasy people that they had to make the Americans the actual threat. The stupidity of the empire in blindly attacking a foe about which they knew nothing was inexplicable.

Which takes us to the original premise here. Conquerors don't initiate hostilities against totally unknown foes after a superficial glance. If the emperor wasn't just going to take the "open diplomatic and trade negotiations" route with the new found land the other approach would be to go the covert operations route. Infiltrate spies, capture a few locals who don't look like they'll be missed, make sure you understand what you're up against thoroughly before before you even think of starting a war. And once they have a clear picture of their potential foe, they aren't going to want to use the kind of attacks that their foes are strongest against. Everyone knows that fireballs against guns aren't the way to go, much less swords. But what about mind control?

You know who would attack without thorough investigation and assessment of the odds just relying on the advantage of surprise? Bandits. Murder hoboes. The kind of guys who don't care if they're starting a war because they will have grabbed all the loot they can carry and scarpered before the locals even mobilized. The war won't be with them.

[Inky]

With a supply of Reflect Missiles items or similar they might have more of a chance.

It might shift things if the modern people couldn't follow them back through the portals - or if the TL3 people just thought they couldn't. In that case, "go through, steal things, run away" might seem like a more reasonable strategy. (Although outright conquest still seems obviously daft, unless the raiders are very stupid). Maybe some kind of magic is required to make the portals work and they think the other side of the portal doesn't have enough magic to open it or that the magically-illiterate locals won't be able to work it out (they may be wrong about this).

Another possibility - maybe the leader doesn't have full control of who goes through the portals (maybe they move about or there are some he doesn't know about yet and thus hasn't got guards at), in which case it might be that the leader does have more sense than to try to go head to head with America and what's coming through is individual idiots in search of glory. The PCs might find themselves on the same side as the barbarian leader.

Being overconfident might make more sense if they'd previously overrun a nation (in their own world) that didn't have magic, or not as much as them. The comparison with Greece makes it sound rather as if they are themselves more technologically advanced than most of their neighbours... maybe they're used to thinking of themselves as the ones that curbstomp their "less developed" neighbours! Or, especially since their magic seems to be something that their priests (among other people) do, maybe they think that having so much magic proves that they're the ones "favoured by the gods" and the Americans are not. Or both.

[Astromancer]

As written, the king ( purple text) and the Warlord (red text) assume that people without magic are mere barbarians and easy pushovers. The suggestion that they are like the Greeks in assuming they are always the curvestompers is correct.

But remember, the LAPD (or whatever police force is in the city of your choice) isn't prepared for magic. It will take time for them to adapt.

Once the portals are more stable, trade will become a norm. One good campaign might feature mages looking for patrons and students in a richer more comfortable world. The more traditional alternative, people from our Earth looking for instruction in magic also works.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Kymage

I am reminded of the short story "The Road not Taken" by Harry Turtledove, where a society that thinks it has an advantage due to a technology not discovered by the other society, Humans in this case, discovers that a Matchlock/black powder weapon equipped army doesn't fare well against an army with automatic weapons despite the one technology they have.

The issue is that you are seldom comparing unknown magic or monsters to technology in a vacuum. You are also comparing it to a known technology (guys with swords) that you know it does not obsolete (because there are still guys with swords running around in the setting).

Certainly unknown magic things might outperform modern technology, but if they did, they'd even more greatly outperform the medieval technologies characteristic of fantasy worlds, and would have replaced them. The difficult balance is there isn't a good way to have both "magic is competitive against modern technology" and "magic has not utterly replaced medieval technologies that modern stuff has" at the same time. Every fantasy game already struggles with this - you can see it every time we debate why some spell or other hasn't destroyed the medieval style economy or society characteristic of fantasy worlds (or the equivalent, "why haven't the monsters already eaten everyone"), throwing in direct contact with higher technologies just makes it harder.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Inky

Another possibility - maybe the leader doesn't have full control of who goes through the portals (maybe they move about or there are some he doesn't know about yet and thus hasn't got guards at), in which case it might be that the leader does have more sense than to try to go head to head with America and what's coming through is individual idiots in search of glory. The PCs might find themselves on the same side as the barbarian leader.

There's never much problem with somebody deciding to start a fight they have no chance of winning in the long run - happens all the time. It even works OK as a one shot adventure. It's just harder to construct an interesting campaign around curbstomping the hopelessly outclassed. Much the same problem (in reverse) as making an alien invasion plot interesting - you need to nerf the aliens (or set odd objectives somehow) to make the fight something other than a foregone conclusion.

One reasons I think these stories work slightly better in anime is the JSDF is already nerfed by restrictions on using it outside the country and a widespread public semi-pacifism already being in place to oppose the obvious conquer everything strategy. It seems a lot more plausible for a Japanese government to throw up a defensive perimeter and try to negotiate with the lunatics who just massacred a bunch of our citizens than for a US government to do the same.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The issue is that you are seldom comparing unknown magic or monsters to technology in a vacuum. You are also comparing it to a known technology (guys with swords) that you know it does not obsolete (because there are still guys with swords running around in the setting).

Certainly unknown magic things might outperform modern technology, but if they did, they'd even more greatly outperform the medieval technologies characteristic of fantasy worlds, and would have replaced them. The difficult balance is there isn't a good way to have both "magic is competitive against modern technology" and "magic has not utterly replaced medieval technologies that modern stuff has" at the same time. Every fantasy game already struggles with this - you can see it every time we debate why some spell or other hasn't destroyed the medieval style economy or society characteristic of fantasy worlds (or the equivalent, "why haven't the monsters already eaten everyone"), throwing in direct contact with higher technologies just makes it harder.

Assuming "Deflect Missiles" is standard military kit the idea that guns are better than swords takes a hit. Or maybe a ceremonially cast suppress combustion spell to give them an upper hand in their beach head.

[Varyon]

Unless you can equip nearly everyone with Deflect Missiles, equipping a smaller number of soldiers with Reverse Missiles would be more effective against infantry, at least so long as you don't make it obvious who has Reverse Missiles and who doesn't - once the infantry sees their bullets coming back at them, they're going to be disinclined to shoot at anyone.

Of course, that just means they'll be relying on artillery, grenades, etc. And in that paradigm, it's better to equip a larger proportion of your forces with Deflect Missiles to protect them from the shrapnel. Overall, I'd say Deflect Missiles is the best option.

How would the US military respond to that? Well, the muscle-powered weapons of the invaders probably aren't going to be able to get through modern soft body armor, even without the plates. But of course modern body armor leaves a lot exposed - you'll undoubtedly have a lot of people (soldiers and civilians) creating body armor out of Kevlar/Dyneema/etc. to protect where typical armor doesn't, much like there was a thriving market for uparmoring vehicles* during Operation Enduring Freedom (also, I think there's already much of such armor available for sale); if the war goes on long enough, the military may officially start providing such armor to soldiers. Offensively, modern soldiers are probably going to have an advantage in training (even in melee) as well as ST and HT compared to most of the invaders' conscripts. At least early on, they'll make heavy use of bayonetted rifles for close combat (both to bludgeon and stab); dedicated melee weapons - captured from the enemy or personally purchased - may see a return to the battlefield. With shrapnel being less useful, they may favor using concussion grenades (which can be used offensively rather than defensively) and the like. It would be bloody work, but I'd expect the US military to come out on top in most melee engagements. If the invaders have a lot of magical weaponry and armor (not just those Amulets of Deflect Missiles or whatever), however, that may level the playing field.

*Of course, the US military may also be able to just run over a lot of the invading army with armored vehicles.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Varyon

*Of course, the US military may also be able to just run over a lot of the invading army with armored vehicles.

Yeah, vehicles are actually super deadly weapons in melee. I once did a thought experiment about what a world without gunpower or explosions would look like, and I came to the conclusion that war vehicles would drive infantry off the battlefield anyway.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Yeah, vehicles are actually super deadly weapons in melee. I once did a thought experiment about what a world without gunpower or explosions would look like, and I came to the conclusion that war vehicles would drive infantry off the battlefield anyway.

Whatever the vehicles are using for motive force could probably be repurposed into a slugthrower anyway - steam cannons, spud guns, gear rifles, etc. But even with projectiles rendered moot, just running foes down - and you may wind up with vehicles having blades or similar mounted as aftermarket additions to increase their impact area - will probably work, particularly if you opt for rugged solid tires. Also, in this situation, considering OpFor would have something that rendered traditional firearms useless, I could see the military deciding whatever rules prevent them from using napalm and the like these days simply don't apply to invaders from another world - Deflect Missiles isn't going to do much for you when your position gets carpet-bombed by napalm, and also equipping all your soldiers with enchantments to both ignore burning damage and not need oxygen is going to be quite a drain on a force that likely is already at a logistical disadvantage.