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Old 01-21-2017, 06:06 PM   #11
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
It's important to note in a Hellenic context that 'barbaros' (barbarian) doesn't mean "foreign person who I assume wants to burn my house down and steal my sheep" - it means "Person who can't speak Greek properly" and more generally "Person who doesn't share cultural roots in the region and hasn't bothered to learn to fit in".
A while back, editing a book on Greek vase painting, I learned about an important change in Greek iconography. For a long time Herakles had been shown carrying a bow. But then came the Persian Wars, and the Greek hoplites went up against Persian cavalry with composite bows. That made the bow a barbarian weapon in Greek eyes, with bowmen gaining some of the same reputation that later ages gave to snipers. So Persians—and Amazons—apparently were identified by bows (though Amazons probably had been so shown for a long time), but Herakles starting being shown wielding a club. "I carry a big stick, the weapon of a civilized man."
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Old 01-21-2017, 06:24 PM   #12
warellis
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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I forget, was this the same era that had the Sea People roaming and raiding across the eastern Mediterranean?
Yes. The Philistines from the Bible have been shown more and more through archeology to have possibly been Greek/Aegean in origin for example.
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Old 01-22-2017, 08:54 AM   #13
phayman53
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
It's important to note in a Hellenic context that 'barbaros' (barbarian) doesn't mean "foreign person who I assume wants to burn my house down and steal my sheep" - it means "Person who can't speak Greek properly" and more generally "Person who doesn't share cultural roots in the region and hasn't bothered to learn to fit in".

Being invaded by Barbarians means that they must be funny-talking outsiders. When someone who speaks properly invades and burns your house down and steals your sheep, they're just "your enemy".
Indeed, "barbaros" originally was the specific Greek term for "Persian" and only later was expanded in meaning to include any foreign speaking outsider. They came up with the term because of the nature of the Persian language, which to them sounded like "bar bar bar bar bar". As far as I know, the term predates the invasion of the Greek areas by the Persians, so it does not necessarily inherently carry the connotation of an invader. However, the Greeks definitely distained Persian culture, even before the invasions. It was not because they saw them as backwards and tribal (like we usually associate with the term), but because they saw them as decadent and slavish.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:24 AM   #14
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

May I suggest the book "Four Thousand Years Ago: A World Panorama of Life in the Second Millennium B. C" by Geoffrey Bibby a source?

It is almost 50 years old, but it gives one a very good "feeling" for the time and the people. And it's a great read.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Sounds interesting. I've ordered a copy of "1177 BC: The Year Civilization Fell".

Edit: There will be four nonhuman races in MesopotAfrica - Fishmen, Insect Men, Merfolk and Reptile Men. All four taken from Fantasy Folk.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:48 AM   #16
johndallman
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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I think I will place it in MesopotAfrica, a fictional land of my own devising.
The dynamics of the historical collapse were probably shaped by the way most of the lands involved were around the Mediterranean. This made transport, of goods, people and ideas, from one country to another rather easy, compared with travelling long distances overland.
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Old 01-22-2017, 09:52 AM   #17
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Yep. We shall need a central ocean of some kind.
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Old 01-22-2017, 10:28 AM   #18
Purple Haze
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Assume everybody has seen this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyry8mgXiTk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRcu-ysocX4
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Old 01-22-2017, 11:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
A while back, editing a book on Greek vase painting, I learned about an important change in Greek iconography. For a long time Herakles had been shown carrying a bow. But then came the Persian Wars, and the Greek hoplites went up against Persian cavalry with composite bows. That made the bow a barbarian weapon in Greek eyes, with bowmen gaining some of the same reputation that later ages gave to snipers. So Persians—and Amazons—apparently were identified by bows (though Amazons probably had been so shown for a long time), but Herakles starting being shown wielding a club. "I carry a big stick, the weapon of a civilized man."
I need to find the title of the work I read on this event. Bows are the Chariot weapon par excellence. Remember Odysseus is always depicted fighting with spear, lance, or sword, but the test in his house at the end of the story is being able to string and fire Odysseus' special and famous bow! Odysseus has a famous bow and he is a famous bowman, yet he never fires an arrow at any point in either the Iliad or the Odyssey.

The bow was the elite weapon of the guys safe in their chariots. When people started to realize that they could simply kill the horses and render the people in the chariots, in their heavy armor (which was never designed for the use of anyone who had to run in combat), helpless, or close to it. Amazons and Persians rode into battle and attacked from a distance. The Greeks specialized in up close warfare.
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Old 01-22-2017, 12:10 PM   #20
Polydamas
 
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Default Re: Apocalypse 1177 BC

Bibby is definitely inspirational for gaming, and being 50 years old is not a problem if you are using it to build a fantasy setting!

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Yep. We shall need a central ocean of some kind.
In my Bronze Age Setting game, the main sea was about the size of the Eastern Med, but with a narrower mouth blocked by don't-call-it-Crete and an ocean beyond. The adventurers were barbarian mercenaries from the mountains in the kingdoms of pseudo-Canaan. Every so often there was news about a tin shortage, or an increase in piracy, or the elderly king of don't-call-it-Egypt making an eccentric demand of his Asiatic subjects. One of the major NPCs was a thinly disguised Abdi-Ashirta from the Amarna letters.
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