11-12-2012, 08:20 AM | #11 |
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
quoted for truth. I think GURPS attracts the people who build their own worlds and systems anyways.
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11-12-2012, 08:27 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
The difference I've noticed is that GURPS allows for more time investment. It's so easy to change things or to add an optional rule that I'm able to adjust things if I want.
I do think this is more front-loaded into the planning stage of a campaign. Once we actually get into playing the game, it's much easier to adjudicate than other games, at least once everyone has internalized the rules. It's rare for situations to come up where I have to stop the game and spend precious time looking up rules. GURPS is consistent enough that I can have players make a roll and then guesstimate what the result should be, and I can make up a penalty to something so that everyone agrees that what I'm doing makes sense. It's not like other games where every situation has a different rule or mechanism that we have to remember. And the rules in GURPS that are like that are optional (like most of the stuff found in Social Engineering), so I might only look to those when I'm planning something that I know is going to need a more detailed resolution mechanism. Whatever extra time is front-loaded into planning and character creation is made up for by how smoothly the game runs (as long as I don't try doing something the system can't handle that it's also not satisfactory for me to fudge, like naval combat; I don't know what happens when you ram a trireme, and neither does GURPS).
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11-12-2012, 09:17 AM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
Quote:
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1) GURPS works in a way that makes more sense to me, and I'm making decisions based upon what makes sense in my head given the situation rather than trying to figure out what make sense given a world that works wildly differently than the one I live in. I don't mean wildly different because of genre, but wildly different simply because the rules don't build a 'physics engine' (for a lack of better words) which produces results at odds with what makes sense to me. 2) I don't need to consider concepts such as level when trying to figure out what value seems appropriate for the stats of a NPC. If the situation calls for an enemy with a skill of 12 in something, that remains true regardless of PC points totals. I don't need to remember a set of rules governing bonuses derived purely from level or something else which is more a part of the game system than the game world. 3) GURPS is consistent. Even if I don't remember exactly how a rule works, I can usually take a stab at it and get pretty close. In some of the other games I play, knowing how one class works might give you virtually no idea about how a different class works. Even if I run a supers game or a DF one or even something completely gonzo and off the wall, GURPS still gives me a good baseline to look at for how things should probably work. Having that baseline -one which better matches how I feel things should work- makes it easier for me to improvise. In response to the thread topic: I do put a lot of time into my game and my game world, but that is because I want to, and not because I need to. Indeed, the ability to get more in depth with my world creation and world building is something which attracted me to GURPS. However -as said- I take that extra time because I want to, and not necessarily because I need to. |
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11-12-2012, 10:04 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: near Houston
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
Not for me, although I do spend a lot of time reading non-gaming sources for ideas that I suppose some would consider work. However, I enjoy reading history and mythology anyway, so I don't mind if I read something and never use it in a game.
I once read the 800+ pages of _At Dawn We Slept_ for just one adventure ;)
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11-12-2012, 11:10 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver, WA
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
I've found that my prep time for most GURPS games I have run has been much less than for, say, Pathfinder (or D&D 3.5). It's possible I do a little bit more work up front than with some other systems, as I have run a lot of published material.
And, as noted above, it seems pretty easy to improvise in GURPS. If I'm running a WWII game maybe I just need to know, for instance, some grunt opponent's shooting ability. In Pathfinder I need to know his class to determine his BAB, whether he has Precise Shot, Far Shot, or any number of other feats that could dramatically affect the outcome, etc. I've never had a player in a GURPS game ask something like, "He needed a 25 to hit me and you rolled a 12. How's he getting a +13 to hit?" (I know those aren't GURPS terms but...) It happens pretty frequently in Pathfinder. M |
11-12-2012, 11:21 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Sep 2011
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
I have to go along with everyone else on this.
I've run a number of different non-GURPS games over the decades and only four haven't required a lot of preparation on my part. Those four were: DC Heroes, Marvel Superheroes, Runequest (2nd ed.) and Arden for Chivalry & Sorcery. Just about everything else required a lot of punching, cutting and moulding to get the campaign into "just so" shape. Even D&D had no published adventures (except for 'Temple of the Frog' in the back of the Blackmoor supplement) until about 1977 when Judges Guild started publishing. The Judges Guild campaign world aside, the initial world of Greyhawk release (a folder, not the boxed set) was still pretty skimpy on needed information (for example, you got the idea that Hardby was a matriarchy but there wasn't even a hint as to whether there were amazon-like warriors there). For fantasy worlds, I tried mixing elements from different worlds together and found that there wasn't much to chose between a lot of them. Mystara, Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms covered a lot of the same ground (over and over, they covered the same ground). Another problem, and D&D seemed the worst offender, was the good "one off idea." For example, Dwarves of Rockholm had the idea that a regular negotiating tactic of the dwarves was tricking negotiators for the other side into a location which prevented exit, with the requirement that the negotiator make favourable concessions before the dwarves would allow him to leave. A moment's thought said that'll work once and then the word will spread so fast that there won't be any negotiations with the dwarves. Exactly what constitutes a lot of preparation varies, but I use two hours preparation for each hour of play as a rule of thumb. YMMV. One ends up doing a lot of work or else "winging" it for all but the most thoroughly prepared commercial settings and adventures and you expect to pay accordingly for those. It just isn't particular to GURPS GMs (GMs is, of course, used in the generic sense). ;) |
11-12-2012, 11:24 AM | #17 |
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
While I spend some time on world building, most of it congeals out of the fetid mass I call a brain without prompting.
I also task my players with making some of it up as they go, and I take notes. For me, I focus on what the party is working on and, if necessary and appropriate, what their adversary is working on. The rest of the world falls into its own place as I go. On the other hand, one of my players, who has recently started his own GURPS game (based off one of his old D&D campaigns) spends 10-20 hours a week working on his game. I've tried to explain to him not to work too hard at predicting the party--just know what needs to happen and look for openings. But he still tries to predict their every decision and prepare that way. To me, that's foolish, but, if it's what he wants to do, that's his business. |
11-12-2012, 11:54 AM | #18 |
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
The short answer is no, GURPS doesn't take more time.
The time I spent preparing for a GURPS game is no different than what I use to do for my old D&D games way back when. I tend to spend quite a bit of time developing the campaign world and what I want from it. I come up with the main nations, peoples, define how I want magic to work, etc. These are all things that are independent of the game system... although game systems do determine your options (there are only so many ways one can tweak the D&D magic system, compared to GURPS where you can invent your own using a Powers framework). With pre-fab worlds, or when using Earth, it's pretty quick. (Even though some worlds are made for some systems, they're really systemless when you get down to it; taking Forgotten Realms or Mystara from D&D and using it in GURPS is trivial.) When creating a world from scratch, this can take some time. Next, I spend the time developing the main campaign story arc. I define the bad guy's goal and preferred methods, set up a rough timeline, and then find a couple of ways how to get the PC involved. I create the major NPC likely to come into play, and how they may help or hinder the players. At this stage, it's a rough draft, not full-fledge stats. i.e., I want NPC Bob to be a powerful warrior, and he's going to pick a fight with the PC warrior to see who is better, while NPC Sue is a witch who will guide the players to the bad guy, and is willing to take a PC as a student. The only specific traits I mention are those likely to have an impact on the campaign as a whole (e.g., if someone has Divination that can track the players every move, or if someone has access to nuclear weapons.) Traits that are only relevant at the combat or individual scale, I don't care about at this point. With this part, you have to make sure it matches the expectations of the players and the premise of the campaign setting. It shouldn't be a quest to make the ultimate money deal for a group of PC monster hunters, and shouldn't be overthrow the emperor for a typical group of PC merchants. I generally lay this down in a rough note for 15 or so adventures/mission (typical for a 1.5 to 2 year campaign playing weekly sessions), using a paragraph or two at most to describe them, and how one leads to the next, or how they can get involved if the previous mission didn't give the lead-in it was supposed to. This is the part that takes the most time for me, and can involve a few hours a day for a few weeks to get into place. I also add a few notes for 1 to 4 independent adventures not linked to the main story; typically, but not always linked to a player background that is itself not linked to the main story. Here, sometimes I cheat by using pre-made adventure modules. Then I start the game. I typically do 1 to 4 adventures not related to the main story. This is to help the players get use to their characters, bring some background stuff up, get familiar with the rules I'm using, etc. If I expect combat to be relatively common, I often throw in a mock combat before these adventures to make sure everyone understands how combat works in GURPS. These 1 to 4 adventures, I mostly wing them. They're based on some notes of just a couple sentences, and I go with it. Finally, I get into the main campaign. While I have my main story arc to guide me, that's all it is; a guide. I think I've been at it long enough now (just over 25 years GMing) that I've gotten pretty good at guessing how things will turn out, as the players are almost always pretty close on track. But even now, I'm still surprised from time to time; my current Counter-Strike modern terrorist hunting campaign effectively bypassed 4 anticipated missions by finding clues I wasn't expecting and are about to bag the bad guy who isn't even ready to put his final plan into motion... that's just how it goes. Because the true adventure path is ultimately flexible, I find the "preparation" is therefore more about how the NPC will react. I want clear, established behavior and goals, and I based all my decisions as GM on that. My NPC in Counter-Strike are now reacting to the players (as opposed to having the PC try to catch up to them), and I'm glad I made a few "what-if" notes for them, as their behavior is what I think is consistent. Anyway, this is NPC notes... again, this is system independent, so GURPS doesn't take any more time then it would have in any other system. I did the same in D&D. Finally, when it comes down to specific missions/adventures, I usually spend maybe a hour in the week just before the game preparing the maps and likely encounters. The monsters and NPC stats, I just wing them. Did that in D&D, and it works even better in GURPS. Major NPC, I have my notes as guide; e.g., Bob is a great warrior, so I make sure he's on par for the PC warrior. This works best, because I'll never know what stats the PC has until they get to that point, so no point in defining the NPC's exact stats in advance. I create them on the fly, based on what i need to challenge the players. So, all in all, my "planning/preparation" method is ultimately independent of the game system I use. I plan the story, not the game. If I had to say anything, I'd say GURPS is slightly easier just because it's easier to wing the stats of an NPC or monster than in a game such as D&D, so goes more with my session to session style... but, D&D compensates by having hordes of pre-defined monsters in the manuals... so they kind of balance out. Last edited by Kallatari; 11-12-2012 at 11:59 AM. |
11-12-2012, 01:58 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
Quote:
You did a better job of saying what I was trying to say earlier. My experiences have been similar. This thread is focusing on game masters, but I also feel there's less prep time as a player. Many people say making a character in GURPS takes a long time, but I feel that making a D&D or Pathfinder character can take just as long. Also, I am able to make the character I want to make without needing to figure out how to master the system. If I want to make a wizard who can also use a sword reasonably well, I can do that. I don't need to plan ahead that I need to take a few levels of some other class, and take feat X to qualify for prestige class Y while making sure I have enough ranks in skill Z. I find that -regardless of whether I'm a player or GM- I can spend more time interacting with what's going on inside the world of the game and less time planning how I as a someone playing the game needs to interact with the metagame parts of the system in order to get the results I want. |
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11-12-2012, 02:15 PM | #20 |
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Re: Opinion: Do GURPS game masters put more work into their campaigns
I think that it's definitely the kind of system that welcomes such prep work. Generic system plus toolkit style of game equals invitation to worldbuilding. I'm much more inclined to play in Golarion or Forgotten Realms or Deadlands or Glorantha if I'm using the systems that come with those worlds. With GURPS, I'm enticed, nay seduced into creating from the ground up, if only to make a world that really shows off GURPS good side.
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