Advice needed for new fantasy campaign

[pfooti]

Hi, um, GURPers.

I'm ramping up to run a fantasy campaign using GURPS rules and could use some advice. I'm a pretty experienced (since 1985 or so) role-player in a lot of games, and have been a PC in GURPS campaigns in the past. Running a GURPS campaign, however, seems like it will be a trifle challenging. Here are some specific questions I have, feel free to criticize the questions as well- I'm not necessarily sure I'm asking the right ones (or point me at the post I missed when I was trying to search these forums). Anyway.

I'm trying to build a campaign in a TL2-5 world. Specifically, it will be a fairly long large time-spanning campaign that starts during a dark age after an empire falls and eventually culminates in a roughly magical/alternative TL5 storyline (that I originally wrote for the Eberron campaign setting back in the D&D 3.5 days). Characters will change over time, I intend the overall campaign arc to last about five hundred years and to have the PCs bouncing around in the timeline a bit as the story demands.

One thing I'm happy about (which is why I feel optimistic about this endeavor) is that I have a pretty clear idea in my head (and on paper) about the campaign setting, the basic events that should form the story arc, and the overall "feel" of the game. I'm shooting for somewhere between high- and low- fantasy. I'm a big fan of the Fafhrd stories and want to capture a bit of that feel in the play. Not really Tolkien-esque high fantasy, but not pox-ridden, malnutrition-prone low fantasy either. I'd say more high than low, with a gritty combat feel that still can turn a touch cinematic at times.

I have purchased the basic Characters and Campaigns books and want to make sure I spend my money wisely on other books.

1. One thing I'm worried about is developing a good fantasy combat system. I don't intend this to be a primarily combat-oriented game (elsewise, I'd just be playing a D&D derivative), but I do want combat to be interesting and tense. I'm considering allowing Weapon Master and Trained by a Master in to make life exciting for most combatants, but I am worried a bit about balance issues.
2. Anybody have any suggestions about character creation guidelines? I'm thinking something like 125 points, 60 disads, or so. I'd like to see most characters advance to ~200 or so (that's what, around 30 sessions?) before retirement.
3. Any advice on good sources for classical fantasy races and monsters? There's a couple of good-looking bestiary books, and I can always stat my own for specific set-piece monsters, but I'd like a nice array of grumkins and stalkers to toss in for when life gets exciting. I'm not sure if my FLGS has any of these books for me to flip through, I'd hate to buy a book sight-unseen without a recommendation.
4. My intention is to mostly use armor and shields as DR without tracking item HP of shields and armor (while I like realism, I like streamline a bit more).
5. How does the general hit-location system end up playing out in practice in a Fantasy game setting? I'm worried specifically about the PCs getting their feet crippled or figuring out a way to consistently stab their foes right in the eyeballs. I'm really torn on this- I don't like the diffuse-damage, no-crippling system that's prevalent in most D&D-inspired games, but at the same time, I'm not wild about making it possible for the PCs to run around "headshotting" all the enemies- I want combat to be challenging, for a party of even advanced characters to fear that warren of orcs. Any advice about handling combat events is really welcome.
6. Here's a big one: the Magic system. I also own the Magic book (as I played a wizard in a PbP game a while back), and imagine that my PCs might not have the patience to deal with the complexity of the skill-based magic system. Ideally, I think I would want to do some kind of hybrid- allow for both skill-based magic and magic-as-advantages (as psionics are handled, right?) The world needs skilled wizards to enchant stuff, but also speedy energy-channelers to help the Adventurers melt the faces of their foes. Specifically, in order to maintain the Adventuring Party's ability to Adventure, while still keeping combat pretty lethal, I will need to introduce some kind of long-form healing spell. Something that takes an hour or two to cast, but heals a lot of bodily damage would mean the party's not laying up for months between trips into the wild, but at the same time, I don't really want a "cleric" to be necessary for this party either.
7. Are there any lists of pitfalls new GURPS players tend to hit? I come from a heavy character optimization background in other games, and typically provide some heavy oversight to my players (I don't require them to do that, but I do try and prevent abusive combinations).

It may sound like I'm writing a heavy-combat campaign, but that's not really true. It's just to me that combat is where a lot of my design choices will be tested, as that's the place where a lot of PC and NPC death will occur based on mechanistic die rolls. The interaction, puzzling, and role-playing I've got a handle on.

Anyway, thanks for reading this long post and for any help you can give.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by pfooti

• One thing I'm worried about is developing a good fantasy combat system. I don't intend this to be a primarily combat-oriented game (elsewise, I'd just be playing a D&D derivative), but I do want combat to be interesting and tense. I'm considering allowing Weapon Master and Trained by a Master in to make life exciting for most combatants, but I am worried a bit about balance issues.
• Anybody have any suggestions about character creation guidelines? I'm thinking something like 125 points, 60 disads, or so. I'd like to see most characters advance to ~200 or so (that's what, around 30 sessions?) before retirement.

That's a pretty low point total if you're thinking about characters with WM and TbaM. One of the big benefits of those is the right to buy cinematic abilities, which you want be able to afford much of on those point totals.

Originally Posted by pfooti

• How does the general hit-location system end up playing out in practice in a Fantasy game setting? I'm worried specifically about the PCs getting their feet crippled or figuring out a way to consistently stab their foes right in the eyeballs. I'm really torn on this- I don't like the diffuse-damage, no-crippling system that's prevalent in most D&D-inspired games, but at the same time, I'm not wild about making it possible for the PCs to run around "headshotting" all the enemies- I want combat to be challenging, for a party of even advanced characters to fear that warren of orcs. Any advice about handling combat events is really welcome.

There are a lot of things that you can do with high skill. Deceptive attacks, rapid strike, vitals hits or head shots, etc. Only the greatest fighters will be able to use these options in conjunction with one another. Most will have to chose one or perhaps two options based on circumstances.

An attack that hits the body is better than an attack that misses the head.

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by pfooti

1. One thing I'm worried about is developing a good fantasy combat system... I'm considering allowing Weapon Master and Trained by a Master in to make life exciting for most combatants, but I am worried a bit about balance issues.
2. Any advice on good sources for classical fantasy races and monsters? There's a couple of good-looking bestiary books
3. How does the general hit-location system end up playing out in practice in a Fantasy game setting?
4. Are there any lists of pitfalls new GURPS players tend to hit? I come from a heavy character optimization background in other games, and typically provide some heavy oversight to my players (I don't require them to do that, but I do try and prevent abusive combinations).

1) GURPS has a good fantasy combat system, if you use it right. Keep the environments changing, don't always use the same type of foes, and throw in some reinforcements from unexpected directions and you'll always have excellent and challenging combats.
2) GURPS Fantasy has a decent bestiary. GURPS Dungeon Fantasy: Allies and GDF: Summoners have more natural monsters and summonable creatures like elementals and spirits. I'd recommend them as good toolkit starting points.
3) In my experience, PCs don't go around head-shotting monsters unless there's a huge skill disparity. A successful headshot requires skill 16+ and some advanced Techniques, and and that level fails to a Skill-14 mook with a medium shield. For headshots to be routinely successful, there needs to be a 4-6 point skill gap between PC and enemy, and at that point the PC can probably kill the enemy by hitting him in the chest repeatedly. I've seen a PC able to make routine eye shots with a bow, but that was a 350 point dedicated archer with a magical bow, and even that didn't work if the other side had shields to block his shots.
4) I try to throw up a large enough variety of challenges that the PCs always need more skills at low levels, because otherwise the temptation to throw 20 points into a primary weapon skill gets pretty high. It's very helpful to level set every as to what skill levels should be expected: a warrior with weapon skills in the 14 range is perfectly reasonable if the opposition has skills in the 10-12 range, but is rather terrible against skill 18+ foes.

[ClayDowling]

The must-have books for you are going to be Fantasy and Magic. Fantasy is full of cool and useful character templates that mesh well with traditional expectations for bold fantasy adventures were swashes are buckled and maidens saved/ravaged (depends on the ebb and flow of the tide which one you choose).

I really recommend starting with a minimum of 150 points. That's about the level of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser when we first meet them. They'll be tougher than average, but not forces of nature and not mistaken for super heroes. I've found it to be a fun and gritty starting point for adventure. They won't be heroes who contend with the gods, but guys who steal stuff and have to be on their toes to keep it.

The most common pitfall for new GURPS players is to be overwhelmed by the options in character creation. The templates from Fantasy make life a lot easier. The other thing is to do a guided character creation. Rather than turning the players loose with Characters, you talk to them about the character they want and choose advantages, disadvantages and skills which match that character. Definitely play up the disadvantages side of things, too. I find that players have a lot of fun role-playing their characters' weaknesses, and they'll ask me how to pull off weaknesses that aren't necessarily spelled out in the book, but look like they might be fun.

The complexity of the skill-based magic system worried me at first, but what I found was that players took to it very readily. A fairly small point investment still gives a player a lot of spells they know, and because spells work just like everything else, it's easy for them to manage. They know all they need to do is roll 3d6 to see if the spell worked or not, and that makes them comfortable with it.

If you want variations, consider grabbing Thaumatology, which has good guidelines for making your own magic system, and a few worked examples of its own. You might also consider grabbing Monster Hunters 1, which has an excellent magic system that meshes quite well with a lot of popular fantasy.

You can streamline your combat by using the styles from Martial Arts. Rather than confusing your characters with a bunch of options, choose a few definitive martial arts styles to represent your races/nationalities. That simplifies everything for your players and for you.

We generally don't use the hit location system, but you can make it optional for called shots, and so far we haven't noticed any unbalancing effects. Shooting a guy in the face is very deadly, but in the heat of combat very hard.

[pfooti]

Awesome, thanks for the advice. I'll definitely look at starting at 150, what I'm shooting for is a level where the PCs start with room to grow, but are definitely a head above commoners at the start.

[ClayDowling]

Completely forgot about the Beasties issue. As mentioned, there's a good selection in the basic set and Fantasy. If that's not enough, grab the Creatures of the Night line. The original 3e edition is awesome, and I based a whole campaign just on that book and some templates from the basic set. Best modern fantasy I've played.

I haven't used the newer Creatures of the Night material, but the 4e material shares an author with the older, so I don't have any reason to believe that it isn't awesome. The free samples in the previews certainly suggest that your money will be very well spent.

[Grouchy Chris]

Originally Posted by pfooti

1. One thing I'm worried about is developing a good fantasy combat system. I don't intend this to be a primarily combat-oriented game (elsewise, I'd just be playing a D&D derivative), but I do want combat to be interesting and tense. I'm considering allowing Weapon Master and Trained by a Master in to make life exciting for most combatants, but I am worried a bit about balance issues.

If you don't have a primary focus on combat, then WM and TBAM are less useful, and you have less reason to worry about them unbalancing the game. At the point budget you're considering, it's going to be hard for a player to afford either of these and then capitalize on it, at least in the short term. So I don't think you have much to worry about.

2. Anybody have any suggestions about character creation guidelines? I'm thinking something like 125 points, 60 disads, or so. I'd like to see most characters advance to ~200 or so (that's what, around 30 sessions?) before retirement.

I started my fantasy campaign off by asking my players to create characters between 100 and 150 points, with a 75-point disadvantage limit. The highest total any player came up with was 130 points, and 100 was the lowest. I then awarded everyone unspent points to bring them all up to 130 points, which then could use after character creation. This let everyone start with the character they wanted at the level they wanted, without feeling like they needed to min-max to hit an arbitrary target, and without penalizing those who built more cheaply. So far, they are doing fine.

3. Any advice on good sources for classical fantasy races and monsters?

Fantasy, Banestorm, and Dungeon Fantasy 3 all have templates for traditional fantasy races, all slightly different. If you don't have that much to spend, I can't really recommend Banestorm, because a lot of it wouldn't be of use to you. Between the two others, Fantasy is more expensive, but it would probably suit a low-end fantasy game more.

5. How does the general hit-location system end up playing out in practice in a Fantasy game setting?

Once players have put enough points into a combat skill that they have a chance of getting a one-shot kill by targeting the skull or eyes, then they should get a chance to do so -- sometimes. It costs a lot of points to overcome those hit location penalties, so players should get some return on their investment. They should be able to sometimes kill mooks in one blow, once they become that competent. To keep them from quickly ending every combat this way, you can give the enemy Injury Tolerance, or high defenses so your players are forced to take penalties for Deceptive Attack, or just bring them in such large numbers that a one-shot kill still exposes the PCs to lots of counterattacks from the orcs.

As for the PCs getting their feet crippled or whatnot, I don't use hit locations against them except in unusual circumstances. So far they enemies have been ordinary soldiers who fight in straightforward ways. That will likely change as the party grows in competence and they face more powerful enemies, and hopefully the gradual increase in difficulty will give them time to learn how to deal with the dangers.

That said, GURPS combat is rather bloody, so there's a real chance of a character getting killed or maimed in every combat, no matter how skilled they are.

[pfooti]

Thanks for all the advice, everybody. I went a bit crazy at e23, not to mention picked up Thaumatology in hardback and a GM screen at my FLGS. Should be a nice bit of summer reading to prep all of this. After all that, my players dang well better show up. :P

One last question: are there any online sources (the GURPS wiki, for example, seems to only have one monster in it) for monsters? I was planning on banging together my own ones, but any help along those lines seems useful. I will be transitioning three of my players from classic 1st-3rd ed D&D into GURPS, so I figure having classic skeletons, zombies, orcs and goblins to fight would be handy. I'll just end up fudging together bad guys (and filing the serial numbers off of monsters from other sources), but I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

I got a couple sources already (Fantasy, Creatures of the Night 1, Banestorm), but they are a bit unwieldy- the Fantasy book has some 1,200 point entities, but no 50-point mooks to fight. I've got a lot of ideas for the Big Bads, it's the supporting cast that I'll need a fair number of.

Meh, it's easy enough to say something like st 12 dex 12 int 10 ht 10 brawling-14 1d cr 10 HP and call it a day. Add flavor to taste, use the 75-125 pt templates from Fantasy to make the tougher midlevel monsters. I'll probably do something with mooks dying at 0 HP instead of making a lot of HT rolls. Sound about right?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by pfooti

One last question: are there any online sources (the GURPS wiki, for example, seems to only have one monster in it) for monsters? I was planning on banging together my own ones, but any help along those lines seems useful. I will be transitioning three of my players from classic 1st-3rd ed D&D into GURPS, so I figure having classic skeletons, zombies, orcs and goblins to fight would be handy. I'll just end up fudging together bad guys (and filing the serial numbers off of monsters from other sources), but I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

I got a couple sources already (Fantasy, Creatures of the Night 1, Banestorm), but they are a bit unwieldy- the Fantasy book has some 1,200 point entities, but no 50-point mooks to fight. I've got a lot of ideas for the Big Bads, it's the supporting cast that I'll need a fair number of.

Meh, it's easy enough to say something like st 12 dex 12 int 10 ht 10 brawling-14 1d cr 10 HP and call it a day. Add flavor to taste, use the 75-125 pt templates from Fantasy to make the tougher midlevel monsters. I'll probably do something with mooks dying at 0 HP instead of making a lot of HT rolls. Sound about right?

Check here and here. The first gives you the tools to make your own (scaled for 250 points, but eyeballing how much of a threat a lower level baddie rates to your 150 point PCs should be fairly easy if you run them through some trial combats.) The second has some stats for prebuilt monsters, many from the thread in the first link.

Otherwise your last paragraph about eyeballing is exactly right.

[pfooti]

Thanks. I just also noticed that there's a brand-new dungeon fantasy monsters supplement, so I got that one too. I just went from staring at lots of blank spaces to a huge number of inspirations.

Man, I remember GMing before the internet. It wasn't nearly as much fun.