Things to learn from CRPGs and use in TT RPGs

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

As bad as some CRPGs are in RP terms, others are know for either good RP concepts (that might be overlooked by TT GMs), or good implementations of concepts that are supposedly known by many GMs but not always well-done. Here are some things (with examples) that I often find lacking in TT RPGs, yet found done quite well in CRPGs. Special note to whswhs: I know that as an Elité 85th-level GM, you've probably done all these things right many times; still, I'm speaking from my experience with the games I've seen in my life. Here goes:

Optimal number of party NPCs with good spotlight managing
CRPGs with good implementation: Mass Effect, ME2, Dragon Age 2, to some extent Knights of the Old Republic and KOTOR 2.
For a GM, handling many NPCs simultaneously is often hard. OTOH, having only one is sometimes insufficient for proper exposition (both of the situation and of their personalities). Two seems to be the optimal number for small parties (1-3 PCs).
Proper spotlight management basically means getting the spotlight when the PCs have nothing to do, or need a hint, but pulling back to the secondary roles otherwise, as to avoid the GMPC Syndrome, especially avoiding doing stuff the players would much rather do themselves.
This is often means that NPCs in certain roles serve the purpose best. To bring a ME2 example, Joker is a cool pilot, a fully fleshed-out character, but he doesn't outshine the PC. Other roles that seem to be well-suited for secondaries include the navigator in the WH40K setting (any system), drivers, medics, hackers, artillery gunners (or other 'heavy support' that is on standby most of the time), some Sages (be careful with this one).

Single location, many years of quests and their consequences
CRPG with good implementation: Dragon Age 2, nearly until the end (at which point it gets to railroading).
I have never seen a game span over 10 years in tabletop, with events from early years influencing the events of the following years. Worse yet, when GMs tried a long-term campaign, this generally resulted in a session to meet, then a half-year ingame 'fast-forwarded' while traveling somewhere or waiting for something, and then the party still behaving as if they barely know each other and doing stuff they could as well be doing several months later or earlier (e.g. exploring long-abandoned places). Kinda sad.
I think DA2's idea to first put the PC (PCs in case of TT RPGs) through some adventure to get to know the others, and then let time pass and consequences of choices made unfold.
This goes well hand in hand with the following:

Detailed network of 'non-party' NPCs, even in action games
CRPG with good implementation: Deus Ex, DX2, Dragon Age 2, Thief: Deadly Shadows (to some extent).
It's no news to anyone that well-designed NPCs are part of a recipe of good campaigns. However, NPC design and making them interconnected is often overlooked in action games. The listed games are pure action games of various types and genres - they don't even have any Diplomacy or equivalent skill. Your character is mostly good at doing stuff (DA2 has the PC possess some leadership qualities, but not comparable to, say, ME2). T:DS is all about repeatedly breaking into buildings unseen and taking stuff (with rare exceptions of seeing/hearing stuff and putting stuff somewhere), and yet the whole thing is most interesting thanks to all the Who's Who's and their interactions. DA2's gameplay becomes monotonous hack-and-slash very fast, but you go through it to see the politics of the city unravel (the PC's influence on city politics is most often as primitive as choosing whom to fight). Finally, one of my favourites about DX (essentially a first person shooter+stealth game) is summarized thus:
At the very start of the game, you can listen to the main Big Bad and his Right Hand Man summarize their nefarious plan; in absolutely no way does it help you figure out their conspiracy or reduce the intrigue until the very end of the game.

Willing to hear comments and additions.
Thanks in advance!

[Fnugus]

Thing is, these games have many people working on them, while the majority of campaigns only have 1 GM making it all.

For the network of NPC's, it becomes essential in urban social games, much like the campaign I've been running locally for almost a year now. The entire game has been about the PC's finding out who did what to who and why, and who helps who, etc. I got great effect from designing the city from the top, and making most noteworthy NPC's beforehand, and draw it out in some brainstorming paper. Building the council, military leaders, religious leaders, persons likely to encounter, inn-keepers, shady people. Then, based on the PC's backgrounds, build up a story that involves all, and do a brainstorm from there. Began the play by having them all witness a murder. Tracing NPC's and placing clues and relationships from there, made it all come alive. Of course, a lot of NPC's has been added since.

On the game side, though, the Elder Scrolls games have been a great source of entertainment for me. The last two, Morrowind and Oblivion was kind of a little far to one side. Oblivion had a too straightforward story, and boring NPC's. Morrowind was almost too complex; you didn't know what to do to get onward.

But in all cases, we've come a long way since games like Exile: Escape from the Pit.

[Johnny Angel]

I'd somewhat agree that the main story to Oblivion was pretty linear; however, I think Oblivion did better at story telling during some of the side quests.

I'm unsure what to say in regards to DA2; I didn't enjoy the story telling nor style in it as much as the earlier game, so I have nothing to add there.

While it's not a rpg, I thought Grand Theft Auto IV (the one with Niko) had some very good moments. Personally, one of my main problems with DA2 was not feeling attached to most of the characters; in contrast, I was actually emotionally upset when Niko's in game love interest was killed. Somehow, even amidst all of the cinematic craziness which is typical of a GTA installment, GTA 4 found a way to make the story feel deeper; to draw me in and actually care about some of the characters.

I'll have to put some more thought into what exactly brought me in, but I think part of it was interacting with the NPCs during downtime. Some NPCs had flaws or talents which weren't always readily apparent and only came to light during conversations in the care or while doing certain activities, and even the smallest of character traits were consistant unless something happened to the character and there was some factor to explain the personality shift. Somehow the attention to those small details which really didn't even matter to the gameplay made the game better for me. There were many fans of the series who felt the story and characters of GTA4 were too grounded and too series; personally I think it far surpassed the story quality of many of it's predecessors.

[vicky_molokh]

Another thing that might be interesting (at least so I heard), but haven't personally played neither in CRPGs nor in TTRPGs (but did in X-COM, which, frankly, is a strategy with RPG-like combats) is base management. GURPS Conspiracy X has a rather detailed (though I have no idea whether sensible/balanced - haven't tested) system for building and maintaining a secret base; GURPS Supers too; GURPS Spaceships can be seen like that, though it's a bit different. The CRPG Mass Effect 2 has some moments where upgrading the ship has effect on relationships and survival of NPCs, but that's not the same thing.

This one I'm particularly interested in, since I am hoping to provide base-management opportunities to the party in the next campaign I'm planning (in no less than ½year from now, though).