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Old 03-15-2011, 11:55 AM   #61
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Usually there isn't much benefit. GURPS is brutal about the difficulties of using two weapons at once. Unless you have points in Dual Weapon Attack and or Ambidexterity it simply isn't worth doing, even then the gain isn't a huge one.
I've found the technique to be worth it. In my samurai playtests, the advantages of Nito-Ryu become obvious. First of all, in my experience, most characters have the skill to either make a rapid strike, a deceptive attack, or attack a vulnerable location, but not generally two or three at the same time. DWA is kinda like buying off the points for a -2 deceptive attack AND a second attack, and so I found that the Nito-Ryu user could afford to regularly attack vulnerable locations or make highly deceptive attacks.

More importantly, you have a second weapon for parries. If you make a committed attack, you lose the ability to parry with your main weapon. This will generally force you to dodge at -2 if you want to defend, but a skilled DWA user can afford to parry with his off-hand weapon at -2.

Likewise, DWA is highly effective against beats. Now, I use a slight variation of Icelanders house rules that make a beat an effective combat choice for pretty much everyone and so beats come up more often than they do in the RAW, but even in the RAW, beats only affect the beaten weapon. Thus, if someone tries to beat your sword and then follow up with an attack, you just substitute your second weapon to defend at normal levels.

Also, cross parries.

Ultimately, DWA provides the ability to attack twice regularly and at high skill level, and gives you considerable defensive flexibility.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:02 PM   #62
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Did I see the unarmed guy use a cross parry vs a Maul in the early rounds, fending off 13pts of damage? One can do that and not have two broken arms? Even with Harsh Realism engaged?
Is cross parry even legal when unarmed? The rules explicitly states that you must have two ready melee weapons, and GURPS consistently treats empty hands and unarmed attacks as different from melee weapons.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:03 PM   #63
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Is cross parry even legal when unarmed? The rules explicitly states that you must have two ready melee weapons, and GURPS consistently treats empty hands and unarmed attacks as different from melee weapons.
Should be. Seen it in multiple kata.
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:04 PM   #64
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Should be. Seen it in multiple kata.
You've seen people cross their arms while parrying. This doesn't necessarily mean that they'd use the rules listed under "cross parry."
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:15 PM   #65
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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You've seen people cross their arms while parrying. This doesn't necessarily mean that they'd use the rules listed under "cross parry."
Why else would they 'waste' a free hand?
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Old 03-15-2011, 12:59 PM   #66
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Why else would they 'waste' a free hand?
All sorts of reasons, including covering a variety of target locations with one move. Not uncommon to "parry" with one hand up, one down, crossed, to provide generic protection from head to belt, allow a good set-up for catches and traps, etc.

Again, though. . .what GURPS calls a Cross Parry (technical term of art) isn't always what would be referred to as a cross parry (not technical term) more casually, or worse, used as a specific technical term by a particular martial art.

So one has to be careful. . .a Cross Parry or any other GURPS move is WHAT THE RULES SAY IT CAN DO, and that's all.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:02 PM   #67
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Well, IMHO a Cross Parry should be impossible with skills that already require both hands to parry (such as Brawling, IIRC). For those that allow one handed parries, then sacrificing all your parries with both hands, for a round, in exchange for a bonus, seems reasonable.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:05 PM   #68
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Well, IMHO a Cross Parry should be impossible with skills that already require both hands to parry (such as Brawling, IIRC). For those that allow one handed parries, then sacrificing all your parries with both hands, for a round, in exchange for a bonus, seems reasonable.
I think you mean Wrestling.

But anyway, we should not let GURPS go D&D4's way, where the effect of a rule has no relation to any action in reality. Yes, GURPS is infamous for stuff like Honesty is not honesty. Not a good thing - let's not make it worse.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:08 PM   #69
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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Why else would they 'waste' a free hand?
I can think of all kinds of reasons, but the core point is this: The cross-parry rules were clearly designed for weapons. They include rules about breakage and "treat it as a two-handed weapon", for example, that simply don't translate into unarmed skills.

Unarmed combat is clearly different. For example, you need to buy a special technique (aggressive parry) to do what weapons generally do. Now, perhaps there's room for rules for an unarmed cross-parry but, and this is my core point, the cross-parry rules in Martial Arts are not them. They would almost certainly include rules on what sorts of damage your arms would expect to take while blocking (not "avoiding") a huge weapon like a maul. These rules do not contain that.

What you really have is a guy exploiting the fact that unarmed parries against weapons often represent avoiding a blow with your fancy footwork skills, and then combining it with bonuses from cross-parry that were never meant to apply to unarmed combat. As a result, he gains the best of both worlds, when that really shouldn't be the case.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:09 PM   #70
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Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

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IYes, GURPS is infamous for stuff like Honesty is not honesty.
Except it IS honesty, as in Honest Man.
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