Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-11-2011, 02:05 AM   #11
Witchking
 
Witchking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
My longest lasting PC in a now defunct arena game was a dual wielding Rapier fighter.

Now, here are some other things that were really useful:
1. I can cross parry. Sure that gives you a +1 to parry, but more importantly, it adds the weapons's weights together for the purpose of parrying heavy weapons. Which means I could parry a heavier weapon than I otherwise could without risking weapon breakage.
Another note for Cross Parry...in addition to adding the weights to determine chance for breakage...if a breakage result occurs...it is the lowest quality/smallest of the two weapons that breaks.

So for example my current PC is using/learning Rapier, Main Gauche, DWA....

He has a Fine Rapier and will soon have Weapon Bond for it...

He has a Ave quality Main Gauche to which he has no real attachment and will probably buy a spare or two to have in the luggage....

So If I have to Parry a Hand and a Half Bastard Sword or full on Two Handed Sword and the dice come up unlucky...oh well I lost THE KNIFE.

A Small but Important Point.
__________________
My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch
America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman
Witchking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 03:27 AM   #12
NMatuzic
 
NMatuzic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Australia
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Wow, awesome answers with a wealth of information. Thanks for all the answers, wielding two weapons makes a lot more sense to me now. I don't know why, but I just couldn't make heads or tales of what I had been reading.

My players will now be quite impressed with my new knowledge, so thanks for the help!
NMatuzic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 05:49 AM   #13
Sir Tifyable
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Sheffield, England
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by lexington View Post
Usually there isn't much benefit. GURPS is brutal about the difficulties of using two weapons at once. Unless you have points in Dual Weapon Attack and or Ambidexterity it simply isn't worth doing, even then the gain isn't a huge one.
Speaking from a sort-of-Real-World perspective, that's accurate. I'm a medieval re-enactor and I've learned to use two broadswords. It takes a long time: first train to fight with the sword (attacks and parries) in the off-hand till it's nearly as good as the primary hand, then start learning to co-ordinate the two and your footwork. Even now I've got it, I still need to practice it regularly to keep the skill up - luckily there's another guy in our group that also does it so we can train against each other.

It's a very flashy fighting style, highly impressive to the audience when it's flowing well (and even more so to other re-enactors who appreciate the difficulty), and extremely confusing to opponents who might receive attacks from any direction.

But if my life really depended on the outcome of the fight, I'd lose the second sword in an instant for the security of a shield, or if my armour is good enough, a two-handed weapon on the grounds that the other guy's armour might be that good and I'll need the strength of both hands to have an effect. So that's the option I choose in GURPS, too.
Sir Tifyable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 06:51 AM   #14
Witchking
 
Witchking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tifyable View Post
Speaking from a sort-of-Real-World perspective,

But if my life really depended on the outcome of the fight, I'd lose the second sword in an instant for the security of a shield, or if my armour is good enough, a two-handed weapon on the grounds that the other guy's armour might be that good and I'll need the strength of both hands to have an effect. So that's the option I choose in GURPS, too.
QFT...If I am writing up a serious Post Up Fighter for Gurps skill 1 is Broadsword...skill 2 is Shield. (and in one case I did it the other way round)

I tend to look at fencing weapons and things like DWA when assembling a thief/scholar/physician/etc who needs to be able to fight ALSO.

As a side benefit the fencer can usually take his weapons along in a settled urban enviroment and since they rely on speed their armor is usually not that bulky/obvious...for most cities (medieval/fantasy) IME walking down the street in full armor with a shield is pretty equivalent to taking a stroll in downtown in FULL Tac gear with a longarm nowadays. The local "cops" will often want a chat at the least...so the heavy fighter can't always go "full kit."
__________________
My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch
America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman
Witchking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 07:34 AM   #15
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witchking View Post
As a side benefit the fencer can usually take his weapons along in a settled urban enviroment and since they rely on speed their armor is usually not that bulky/obvious...for most cities (medieval/fantasy) IME walking down the street in full armor with a shield is pretty equivalent to taking a stroll in downtown in FULL Tac gear with a longarm nowadays. The local "cops" will often want a chat at the least...so the heavy fighter can't always go "full kit."
On the other hand, somebody carrying fencing weapons and knives may come off as a troublemaker, depending on local views and their social status. Civilian weapons indicate an intent, or at least preparedness, to fight in civilian contexts. Which is exactly what the local authorities would be concerned with preventing...

Carrying a military sidearm like a broadsword might suggest that you generally use your weapons in contexts rather unlike the streets and alleys they're concerned with policing. Obviously, full armor in town is more than a little worrisome all the same...
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

Last edited by Ulzgoroth; 03-11-2011 at 07:38 AM.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 09:07 AM   #16
Gef
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yucca Valley, CA
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tifyable View Post
I'd lose the second sword in an instant for the security of a shield
Especially against arrows. Block works against arrows. You need a separate skill (Parry Missile Weapons) to parry arrows. -GEF
Gef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 10:15 AM   #17
Witchking
 
Witchking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Athens of America
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
Especially against arrows. Block works against arrows. You need a separate skill (Parry Missile Weapons) to parry arrows. -GEF
Or a very impressive Move/Dodge...which while it has its own additional benefits gets expensive quickly...
__________________
My center is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent. I shall attack.-Foch
America is not perfect, but I will hold her hand until she gets well.-unk Tuskegee Airman
Witchking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2011, 12:33 PM   #18
trooper6
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Medford, MA
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

There are times when shields are awesome. But there are other times when I'd prefer to be using a Rapier and Dagger.

But...in the context of dual wielding weapons...I do want to point out that a Shield is a weapon as well as a blocking device. So a sword/shield fighter is dual wielding--in the sense that they can also use Dual Weapon attack and they have defense options on both sides of their body. The reason I wanted to say this, is because I think sometimes new players forget about many of the wonderful offensive options of the shield. What is especially nice is that bigger shields are often heavy enough to cause a breakage check against most swords...which means a person who relies on parries, will be forced to dodge instead (often unless they can cross parry).

Of course, this does require the PC to be either quite strong or quite encumbered. And they may not be the way to go for the character concept. I found my very mobile dual-wielding light fighter was quite able to keep up with the heavier fighters...until I got to Ogres with DR and plate. Then I just couldn't penetrate DR with my strength. But that is a whole different topic again.
trooper6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2011, 05:15 PM   #19
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default [OT]Shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper6 View Post
There are times when shields are awesome. But there are other times when I'd prefer to be using a Rapier and Dagger.

But...in the context of dual wielding weapons...I do want to point out that a Shield is a weapon as well as a blocking device. So a sword/shield fighter is dual wielding--in the sense that they can also use Dual Weapon attack and they have defense options on both sides of their body. The reason I wanted to say this, is because I think sometimes new players forget about many of the wonderful offensive options of the shield. What is especially nice is that bigger shields are often heavy enough to cause a breakage check against most swords...which means a person who relies on parries, will be forced to dodge instead (often unless they can cross parry).

Of course, this does require the PC to be either quite strong or quite encumbered. And they may not be the way to go for the character concept. I found my very mobile dual-wielding light fighter was quite able to keep up with the heavier fighters...until I got to Ogres with DR and plate. Then I just couldn't penetrate DR with my strength. But that is a whole different topic again.
Gosh... That makes me remember a vignette from, I think, 1st Edition Runequest. A veteran is training some rookies on shield techniques, and said <paraphrasing, since I don't have that book in my collection anymore> "If it were up to me, all recruits would start training Shield before any weapon. That's how important it is." That always stuck with me, for some reason.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 07:04 AM   #20
Exxar
MIB
 
Exxar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Default Re: Help a n00b - Wielding dual weapons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gef View Post
IV. If as a cinematic fighter (Trained by a Master or Weapon Master) you have Extra Attack with the enhancement Multi-Strike, then you may choose a Dual-Weapon Attack for one of the strikes, and you can Rapid Strike with each, leading to some crazy attack frequency but that's why it's cinematic. Of course, there's still no reason to ignore the shield as a choice for a second weapon, for you can punch with it for thrust damage, attack with the rim for swing damage, shove, and feint quite effectively all the while benefitting from its bonus to defense.
Since when is this legit? I remember it being said that you can use either Rapid Strike or Dual-Weapon Attack, but not both at once.
Exxar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dual-weapon attack

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.