Reality testing firearm rules

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

As usual I am confused by your math. I even missed wherever you defined "K".

It's an unspecified constant (i.e. it's probably not zero, but there's no special theoretical basis for knowing what it is).

[oma]

While I rarely shoot long arms I use my sidearm frequently at the range. Shooting at a range is light years easier than in a high stress situation, especially without training.

The times I have been shot at, they were all untrained "badasses", who liked to carry guns but are not trained. They didnt even come close to hitting me because they were pumped on adrenaline as they assumed I would shoot back.

I would give massive bonuses to a gurps player doing target practice. In a game i wouldnt even have them roll unless it was a direct contest that has story importance. If they have at least one point in guns then range shooting is whatever they want it to be, as long as it fits the story.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by oma

I would give massive bonuses to a gurps player doing target practice. In a game i wouldnt even have them roll unless it was a direct contest that has story importance. If they have at least one point in guns then range shooting is whatever they want it to be, as long as it fits the story.

Competitive shooting at a range would be a skill contest or series of them using Guns Sport (and thus Guns -3 if you're using a 'real' Guns skill).

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

I wish the rules were written in the other direction, have skill reflect what a skilled shooter should accomplish under trivial conditions and give us a pile of penalties to toss on for combat conditions. I tire of trying to remember all the 'trivial' conditions bonuses to make plinking fit into the GURPS rules.

Why would you want the default condition to be the one that never actually happens in actual play and the unusual condition to be the one that always happens?

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why would you want the default condition to be the one that never actually happens in actual play and the unusual condition to be the one that always happens?

Comprehensibility. You can explain range shooting precisely even to non-shooters but real combat is this confused and jumbled up thing that many people will ahve no context to understand and other people won't be sure that your assumptions are the same as their assumptions.

[sir_pudding]

"Melee weapon skills assume a life or death fight, but ranged weapon skills assume an easy day of shooting on a 21st century brightly lit indoor range with electronic targets" seems more likely to be confusing than comprehensible.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

"Melee weapon skills assume a life or death fight, but ranged weapon skills assume an easy day of shooting on a 21st century brightly lit indoor range with electronic targets" seems more likely to be confusing than comprehensible.

Then you explain what the effects of that life or death fight are on the user's ability to hit his target and why it's so much harder than target shooting.

[Anthony]

I would note that melee weapon difficulty vs unmoving targets is exactly the same problem as ranged weapons. If an untrained person picks up an axe (default DX-5) and tries to hit a pumpkin (SM around -3) in reality they're going to hit more often than not.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I would note that melee weapon difficulty vs unmoving targets is exactly the same problem as ranged weapons. If an untrained person picks up an axe (default DX-5) and tries to hit a pumpkin (SM around -3) in reality they're going to hit more often than not.

All-out Attack +4 and Telegraphed blow +4 for +8 to hit covers that. Even AoA + Evaluate for a total of +7 mostly does. Thus the problem might almost be that melee doesn't need a whole pile of positive modifiers for nice working conditions, yet surely should have them as well, but if you include them untrained melee attacks are possibly too easy.

[sir_pudding]

Stress affects melee about equally, especially if you include situational awareness. Lighting effects ranged more. Wind is mostly irrelevant to melee, unless it's so severe that standing is difficult, but even small variations affect firearms. Known range and sight adjustments obviously only is relevant for ranged weapons.