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12-03-2020, 05:11 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
I'm confused. What is the maximum control points? Is it equal to Trained-ST, or Trained-ST multiplied as per the Grip ST Table?
So a ST 10 character with no skills using one hand has a 5 CP max. With two hands 10 CP. If he is using two arms and a leg it is 11 CP, and two arms+two legs it is 15? How about extra limbs, do they have the 'diminishing returns' on Trained-ST and max CP as well by the way? Does a 4-armed dude have 20 CP ((two arms, ST*1) + (0.5*2, 2x Extra Arms))? Or is it diminished similar to Two Hands & Two Legs, and lands at 14 or something? How about characters who can grapple with their torso, like a snake-person? If we have a ST 10 snek-medusa grappling a person with two hands and her snake-torso does it end up as ST 20 ((two arms, ST*1) + (0.5*2, 2x Extra Arms)), or something similar to Two Hands & Two Legs again?
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12-03-2020, 07:03 AM | #2 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
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2020 version: Oh my God what was I thinking? Control Max is just Lifting ST, modified by bonuses to ST for Wrestling or Sumo or whatever. There are more than a few things that seemed like a good idea as I was writing it in 2012 or so that I'd do differently now.
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12-03-2020, 07:15 AM | #3 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
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A four-armed dude with ST 10 would then just be able to apply 10 CP in total, right? Or is there some way around the 10 CP limit for him? CP used in locks still count to the total CP, right? That basically means he can only get his enemy down to ST/DX-5 which is a fair bit, but not a pin. Similarly the snek-dusa would basically just wrap her torso around some greek soldier's torso, but couldn't really use her arms to restrain the soldier's arms without loosening the grip on the soldier's torso? Quote:
Edit: Woudn't Max CP = Trained-ST basically mean you'd never use your legs for grappling unless it is for the slightly ST for the CP-damage-rolls?
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" Last edited by RedMattis; 12-03-2020 at 07:18 AM. |
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12-03-2020, 08:40 AM | #4 |
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
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12-03-2020, 08:47 AM | #5 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
No. That's not how it works. Max CP is MAX CP, not 'per grapple.' It's the maximum amount of control a person with that strength and training can apply under any circumstances.
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12-04-2020, 10:30 AM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2018
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
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You would have 0.5xST RH>RH, another 0.5x for LH>LH which would total 1.0xST Would that mean for the leg-on-leg additions of 0.6xST that you just could not do those grapples, or they would be limited to 0CP grapples because any CP added on the legs would exceed the total? I guess I just informally assumed "amount of CP a grappler is maintaining" meant "grappling implement"... Quote:
I guess I'm wondering if you can maintain 0.5xST hands-free (pass limb) why that can't increase max CP like adding a 2nd hand would? It kinda seems like you could still track it "per grappled location" IE if you're grappling with 1 arm and 1 leg (0.5+0.6=1.1) it's still prob like max 0.5 on the arm's target and 0.6 on the leg's target, when calculating penalties that apply based on 100% of the CP instead of 50% (referred control) ? that'd be like 0.5+0.3=0.8 for arm and 0.6+0.25=0.85 calculating max CP (as multiple of trained ST) when including referred control I guess? Last edited by Plane; 12-04-2020 at 10:34 AM. |
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12-03-2020, 08:45 AM | #7 | ||||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
Sorry, I was trying to get my kids off to school and dashed off an incomplete reply. In FDG (Fantastic Dungeon Grappling), Max CP is Lifting ST if you're doing a regular attack, double Lifting ST if you AoA. So there's plenty of room for serious penalties to ST and DX, but you have to commit. Quote:
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So you'd still get a benefit from using your legs. [1] Sorry, just got squirmy I actually thought all that mid-game math was a good idea. Ever.
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12-03-2020, 09:30 AM | #8 | |
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden, Stockholm
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
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Either way, I bought the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling pdf, and I'm having a read right now. I wasn't aware of its existence before.
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"Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared" |
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12-03-2020, 10:59 AM | #9 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
Yeah. Trained ST is "your effective ST plus your training bonus." As your Grip ST goes up when you use your legs, arms, or other grapply appendages, your Trained ST should go up as well.
i mean, I still feel that it's way too much math in play as you add and take away arms and legs and such...but if you're willing to keep track of the details, that's how I'd do it to get sensible results. Quote:
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12-03-2020, 07:25 AM | #10 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: GURPS Technical Grappling Max Control Points
Enough for a new edition? Like quite a few people, I admire the current book while finding it too complicated for routine use.
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