[RPM] Help me tweak the basic RPM system

[Qhaysh]

So, as I mentioned in another thread, I've been reworking the RPM system to fit my fantasy setting, and I would really, really appreciate the hivemind's help in doing it. I know my writing and ideas can be a little convoluted at times, but please, please bear with me for a few paragraphs.

Basically, I want to emphasize the casting roll a little more. I'll do it by making the act of shaping the collected mana a little more detailed. I also want spells to be more important to mages, overall (but I'll leave this for later).

In the MH version, there is no distinction between the effect's scope (area affected, number of targets, intensity, damage, etc.) and complexity (transforming a rock into mud is easier than transforming it into a flock of birds). If an effect is more complex, it requires more energy, if it's bigger, it also requires more energy. So we have a single mechanic for two distinct things.

While this is all nice and fine for a MH game, my game will feature magic and mages more prominently so I'll have ample space for a more complicated magic system. What I'd like to do is to associate the amount of necessary energy to the effect's scope (and thus the gathering mechanics) and its complexity to the casting roll. In essence, the more mass/energy created by the spell, the higher its energy cost. And the more sophisticated/complex it is, the more shaping it'll require.

This means that a highly-damaging fireball spell should require a considerable amount of energy but not a large amount of "effect shaping", seeing as you'd just have to conjure up a big ball of flames. Conjuring up a single homing ice dagger, on the other hand, would be less energy-intensive and more shaping-intensive.

I was able to come up with two ways to do it:
1) Import part of the "Effect Shaping" mechanics into RPM. Modifiers closely related to scope (such as number of targets and area of effect) require more energy, as usual. Other elements more closely related to complexity (such as adding a bunch of advantages or complex triggers) affect the casting roll according to a modified version of the Effect Shaping Modifiers tables at the end of Thaumatology. Since Energy Accumulation and Effect Shaping are both possible mechanics for the Path/Book systems, I don't think it would be much of a problem using the aforementioned tables. So the casting roll is a single roll, but it has more modifiers affecting it.

2) Use a variant of the Energy Accumulation rolls for the Shaping rolls. The casting roll is now a series of casting rolls. Throughout these rolls, the caster accumulates "Shaping Points". The amount of "Shaping Points" generated with each roll is equal to the caster's margin of success. These accumulate over the series of Shaping Rolls until the caster has enough of them to actually cast the spell. The amount of Shaping Points required for each spell depends on how complex it is.


Hopefully my gigantic rant was at leas barely comprehensible. Feel free to ask for clarification and further information.

Thanks in advance for any and all input. Hail the hivemind!

[Langy]

I so, so want #1 of this. I only want to make a single casting roll for RPM magic, damn it! Making it an 'effect shaping' like thing would be perfect.

[Qhaysh]

It would also be super-nice to have an idea if something similar to what I suggested here will appear in the upcoming Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic. *nudge nudge wink wink*

[Refplace]

One thing I did for my game was create a Mode skill that allowed you to gather energy using a particular mode.
So you have a Bard use RPM but sing or dance to accumulate the energy against that skill then cast against the actual Path skills.
That might get you want you want as well.
Different Mode skills can give you a lot of different flavor.
And you asses your modifiers on the Path skill for casting for complexity.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Qhaysh

It would also be super-nice to have an idea if something similar to what I suggested here will appear in the upcoming Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic. *nudge nudge wink wink*

You check out the Alchemy rules in the last Pyramid? From the preview it looks like they use the Mode skill concept.
Cant be sure though and dont have the money to buy it at the moment

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Refplace

You check out the Alchemy rules in the last Pyramid? From the preview it looks like they use the Mode skill concept.
Cant be sure though and dont have the money to buy it at the moment

Yeah, they do.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Langy

Yeah, they do.

Good. I was so thrilled when I saw that. It pushes my rules closer to RAW then.

[dataweaver]

Not really. Acceptance of an article in Pyramid means nothing in terms of acceptance in future official publications. But yeah, I also like the Mode Skill notion (though not the particular implementation used in that article).

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

Not really. Acceptance of an article in Pyramid means nothing in terms of acceptance in future official publications. But yeah, I also like the Mode Skill notion (though not the particular implementation used in that article).

While that is true several things in Pyramid have made it into to the rules and being published at least means other people have seen it.

When I came up with the Mode skill for my game I used it as a Path skill that had its own effects but also could be used for the energy gathering role.
Currently you use the lowest of the Path skills in the Ritual but a Mode skill allows you to use it instead which would make it easier for some one to gather a lot of energy to cast big spells.
Since you didn't like the Alchemy version but do like the idea what do you think of that ?
Currently I use RPM or a variant for Kayan (Elves, Mode skills based off the Muses)), Vampire, Bardic (Based off and taught by the Kayan) and I am considering implementing variants for Gem and Craft magic but I want those to be more like Enchantments and/or Reusable Charms. Havent done any work on that yet, may just wait to see if Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic has an enchanting process.

[dataweaver]

Personally, I prefer Mode Skills to be existing things with non-RPM uses, like Singing, Dancing, Meditation, or Erotic Art. As you say, they get used for the Energy Accumulation rolls during the preparation for the ritual, but the Path skill gets rolled as per the Effect Shaping rules to actually perform the ritual. I agree with the OP about the idea of changing some of the "energy cost" modifiers into Effect Shaping penalties, particularly ones dealing with how "fancy" the effect is (such as Complexity) as opposed to how "big" it is.

As for creating enchanted objects using RPM, my own preference is to adapt the Alchemical Charms rules from GURPS Magic: perform a ritual as if you were creating what RPM calls a charm, but at an additional -2 penalty and needing much more time per roll (a full day per roll, whether or not you're an Adept: you're not just gathering the energy, but you're very carefully structuring it into a permanent form as you do so: this takes time, and reducing that time requires something more along the lines of Quick Gadgeteering than Ritual Adept); if you succeed, you get an item that operates according to the Alchemical Charms rules (but with the Talisman recharge time being replaced by a need to accumulate a tenth of the energy again) instead of counting as a conditional spell.

I have several issues with the Bottled Magic article, which I'll go into elsewhere if anyone's interested; but the one that's relevant here is that Alchemy just doesn't strike me as a good Mode skill. It makes more sense to me as the Core Skill, replacing Thaumatology as the skill that Paths are based on. In fact, alchemy doesn't strike me as a good subject for the Energy Accumulation model; I'd forgo the Mode skill altogether and just go with a pure Effect-Shaping model.