Tactical Consequences of The Last Gasp

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I was reading over the rules on this, and as far as I could tell, machines loose their AP pool and are forced to buy AP regeneration to have any AP at all. (and AP is specifically excluded from being bought down). Getting 10 AP a turn makes a character scary -- and costs a TON. 1 AP a turn is actually pretty crippling -- something you'd see on a slow zombie. 2 or 3 AP probably are about equal to having the 'normal' AP pool. Its the higher levels of AP that give a big advantage.

Without working numbers or anything, this sounds right.

[Tomsdad]

Tactically I really like it. It and another area to create fighting tactics in without adding much complication to the system. It's pretty good at forcing a pace on combat that gets away form the issues of PC's acting perfectly second by second like clockwork death machines until all threats have been addressed, as we sit about the table.

It can be leveraged in different ways (the relentless but slow zombie, etc, etc)

It tweaks well as well.

My current favourite tweak is penalising flurry AP by encumbrance pen and the to-hit penalty for using a too heavy weapon. (recalculating if stats drop from FP use of course)

On a larger scale as GM I can use it to pace and shape encounters. A recent one being a running encounter with with some town milita types. Normally the PC's would have separated and faced them down in small groups mincing them in individual encounter. But I didn't give them a break, so even doing that FP's started to get lost. We actually had players beginning to panic.

as a GM I always feel I'm doing my job if my players are beginning to panic!

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I was reading over the rules on this, and as far as I could tell, machines loose their AP pool and are forced to buy AP regeneration to have any AP at all. (and AP is specifically excluded from being bought down). Getting 10 AP a turn makes a character scary -- and costs a TON. 1 AP a turn is actually pretty crippling -- something you'd see on a slow zombie. 2 or 3 AP probably are about equal to having the 'normal' AP pool. Its the higher levels of AP that give a big advantage.

I'm sorry, but does this mean that when adding TLG to a campaign, all templates that have the FP=N/A feature need to be modified, changing their point totals and assigning them different levels of Regeneration? (It's been a while since I've read that Pyramid . . . )

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I'm sorry, but does this mean that when adding TLG to a campaign, all templates that have the FP=N/A feature need to be modified, changing their point totals and assigning them different levels of Regeneration? (It's been a while since I've read that Pyramid . . . )

That's right. The Last Gasp changes how much impact being winded has on combat performance and as a consequence of that, being completely untiring is no longer a Feature, but becomes an Advantage, the cost of which depends on how much activity per second the untiring character can perform.

[Anders]

Has anyone tried to do a Roman legion thing, with front-line fighters keeping up the pressure and then retreating back fresh troops to regain their APs?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anders

Has anyone tried to do a Roman legion thing, with front-line fighters keeping up the pressure and then retreating back fresh troops to regain their APs?

My PCs tend to be massively outnumbered, so it's opponents who would benefit from that. Generally, the PCs manage to break down ranks and formations in short order, though. If they didn't, they'd lose.

[Anders]

What happens with the Berserk advantage?

"If armed with a hand weapon, you must make an All-Out Attacks each turn a foe is in range. If no range, you must use a Move maneuver to get as close as possible to a foe - and if you can Move and Attack, or end your Move with a slam, you will."

Sounds like they will run out of APs in three seconds. Maybe one should adjust the cost of the disadvantage?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anders

What happens with the Berserk advantage?

Sounds like they will run out of APs in three seconds. Maybe one should adjust the cost of the disadvantage?

I've never had a PC take Berserk, as any NPCs who have had it have amply demonstrated that it amounts to Terminally Ill with a lifespan of several seconds, Trigger: Combat, but gives back much fewer points.

In connection with a supernatural power package that would grant awesome melee ability, but have the risk of going Berserk as a drawback, however, I started to think about how it would work with the Last Gasp.

I guess... the character would expend all his FP pretty quickly, thus making Berserk even worse? Even if he won, he'd be weak for days or weeks afterward.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I've never had a PC take Berserk, as any NPCs who have had it have amply demonstrated that it amounts to Terminally Ill with a lifespan of several seconds, Trigger: Combat, but gives back much fewer points.

In connection with a supernatural power package that would grant awesome melee ability, but have the risk of going Berserk as a drawback, however, I started to think about how it would work with the Last Gasp.

I guess... the character would expend all his FP pretty quickly, thus making Berserk even worse? Even if he won, he'd be weak for days or weeks afterward.

Right, which is realistic. But should the point value be adjusted?

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Anders

Right, which is realistic. But should the point value be adjusted?

*Shrug*

I feel Berserk is severely underpriced as is, so I support it.

The pricing was worked out before Telegraphic Attacks, for example, which made All-Out Attacks a lot more suicidal, and didn't really account for the interplay of extremely nasty grappling moves, Telegraphic Attacks and Targeted Attacks against vulnerable spots and/or Armour Gaps which usually follow an All-Out Attack against an aware foe with combat training and equipment.

Enough DR to make All-Out Attacks low-risk or even less than suicidal in hand-to-hand combat is pretty rare in all games I've run and usually means that the character is fighting what are effectively non-combatants compared to him.