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Old 01-08-2013, 12:46 PM   #11
Nymdok
 
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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Originally Posted by Mark Skarr View Post
If the survivors don't have anti-survivors* within their group, any prepared location should hold out as long as their supplies do. Sure, there's always the possibility of being overwhelmed, but usually, it's a lack of cooperation.
This idea intrigues me. When the danger of the zombies doesnt come from their bite, but their perpetual 'There will be more zombies tomorrow' existence. How long CAN your supplies reasonably sustain.

Figuring up a gallon of water per person per day is pretty straight forward and can be solved by a well.

Figuring X amount of food is also reasonable, assuming that your stronghold actually encompases enough area to grow food without having such a large perimiter that the defenses are spread too thin. But Im not sure how much area that is per person, not to mention the steady need for fresh meat or the possibility of a tough growing season.

Sooner or later someone is gonna get sick. Sooner or later an appendix is gonna get uppity. How much human and medicinal resource do you have to sustain?

What do we do when the ammo runs out? The mines are all detonated? The gasoline/diesel/propane/fuel is all burned up?

Sooner or later someones going to have to venture 'out there where the zekes are' to keep 'in here where the zekes aint' supplied with food, ammunition, fuel, med supplies or really whatever reason you like.

I confess that I dont know much about siege warfare, and would love to see some numbers.

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Old 01-08-2013, 01:25 PM   #12
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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This idea intrigues me. <snip>
You're looking at the body of the campaign and not the issue of a defensible foundation.

Zombies, in general, are a somewhat-motivated, unskilled, untrained force at best. They have no special forces. Their two, major, benefits are unshakable morale and no need of resupply.

However, a well-built fortress will keep them out indefinitely. And, that doesn’t make for good storytelling. Making the zombies intelligent enough to breach defenses makes them unstoppable, so most of the storytellers rely on human nature to cause the defenses to fail.

Eventually, yes, they will have to venture out of their impregnable fortress to find more supplies, medical supplies at the very least. But that’s what the campaign is about.

In a day, I could turn my house into a reasonably zombie-proof fortress. It wouldn’t last any length of time against human adversaries, but I could keep a nearly limitless number of zombies or other unintelligent attackers at bay as they lack the ability to work together to overcome obstacles. It would also hold out, well, against semi-intelligent foes such as large animals.
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Old 01-08-2013, 02:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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If the survivors don't have anti-survivors* within their group, any prepared location should hold out as long as their supplies do. Sure, there's always the possibility of being overwhelmed, but usually, it's a lack of cooperation.

The issue for Zombie Survival Media is that there is always some idiot who decides to actively work against the group. And they've always suppressed their own self-preservation instict, or, at the very least, deluded themselves into thinking something will protect them from the zombies.

Basically, the way to ensure you survive the zombie apocalypse is to make sure you're with people who can live together, and immedately execute (or exile) anyone who begins working against the group.

* people who work against the common survival.
As soon as any significant portion of the population goes into turtle mode instead of doing their jobs, some of which are going to be jobs that ensure that the rest of the population is supplied with power and food transported over massive distances, society will collapse and the supplies most people have in their homes won't last very long.

Anyone who stocked up for a year or two will have to worry a lot more about human survivors who have to choose between turning bandit or dying of famine, disease or exposure (along with anyone dependent on them) than he does about mindless, shambling zombies.

A small community is not the same as barricaded location. In the long run, any society that is not self-sufficient* in all necessities is doomed anyway. That means that a small society that is enough to survive the zombie outbreak is one where they can produce food and other necessary supplies.

*We are defining communities that trade with each other as part of the same society, for the purposes of this statement.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:12 PM   #14
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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Zombies, in general, are a somewhat-motivated, unskilled, untrained force at best. They have no special forces. Their two, major, benefits are unshakable morale and no need of resupply.
How does that work exactly? Are these fantasy zombies that can shamble around forever powered by some magical energy, or are they SF zombies that need something (brains?) to keep them going without which they wither and die or at least grow quiescent?


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Old 01-08-2013, 07:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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However, a well-built fortress will keep them out indefinitely. And, that doesn’t make for good storytelling. Making the zombies intelligent enough to breach defenses makes them unstoppable, so most of the storytellers rely on human nature to cause the defenses to fail.
Alternately, focusing on someone who isn't in such a location, such as salvage parties, people looking for loved ones, or just people who haven't made it to a safe location yet (reaching such a location can be the conclusion of a short campaign). Or, the more common (i.e. lazy) way: zombies that can wipe out a battalion of infantry off-screen but can't stop a guy, a kid, and a dog.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:38 AM   #16
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: defending against zombies

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How does that work exactly? Are these fantasy zombies that can shamble around forever powered by some magical energy, or are they SF zombies that need something (brains?) to keep them going without which they wither and die or at least grow quiescent?
These are zombies from just about every zombie movie I've ever seen (hundreds). They never seem to need sustenance and are animated by some force that is never adequately explored or explained in the work.

They are dead and eating brains doesn’t seem to do anything other than to make them want more.

Sure, if you’ve got the biological zombies from things like L4D or the 28-series, then you just have to wait them out. They’ll burn through their food source in a matter of weeks and then it’ll be time to clean up. But, if you’ve got Romero-esque zombies that just are, or Resident Evil zombies, then you have to worry about long-term survival and fortification building.

Icelander is spot on. Long-term survival depends on becoming self-sufficient.

For RyanW, it's all about the story you want to tell. Zombieland and Shawn of the Dead are the same movie, just told from different, cultural viewpoints.

At one point, Gold & Appel, Inc. ran a Professional Wrestler Zombie Apocalypse game! I ran Mick Foley. It was a great little one-shot that we all survived (except a measurable percentage of the audience).
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:01 AM   #17
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At one point, Gold & Appel, Inc. ran a Professional Wrestler Zombie Apocalypse game! I ran Mick Foley. It was a great little one-shot [snip]
Thanks! I had a lot of fun with that one. I'm totally bringing back Bare-Handed Zombie Cull this Halloween; haven't done one since the space thing in '10.
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