Fate/Story/Plot Points as an Advantage

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

So I'm trying to build a top-down concept advantage around the concept of Fate Points, and I'm at the brainstorming stage and really not sure of the direction I want to go.

I have a concept of what I want this advantage to do in a narrative/story sense, and a rough idea of one way to build it with game mechanics, but I really need advice.

I'm calling the hypothetical PC with this advantage Bob.



This is what I want out of the advantage:

1. It is an advantage, not a game rule that affects all characters. In theory both PCs and NPCs could have it, but I don’t care if it has no actual game effect for NPCs. (In fact it will be a racial advantage.) The biggest issue I’m facing is having no clue how to approach the cost.

2. It is quite distinct in feel from both Luck and Destiny, and totally compatible with both Unluckiness and Destiny disadvantage. Fate Points cannot be spent to improve a roll, to reroll, to get a bonus, to penalize an NPC roll, etc.

3. The effects of the Fate Points are in-character: they increase the impact (on destiny/narrative/the world) of the character’s actions, increase the game/narrative impact of the character’s nature, and/or give the player narrative control to benefit the character’s goals and desires. The basic thrust is that it makes Bob’s actions narratively more significant than a character without it, or gives Bob's player more narrative control, without making Bob more likely to survive or succeed at anything particular. Bob's failures and stupid mistakes will be as significant as his successes and wise decisions. If he's actually an idiot or has little self-control, it can backfire on him (in the same way that a skilled fighter can very successfully murder the one NPC whose help they needed, by shooting first and not asking questions).

4. The ability is an actual (intangible, abstract) in-universe power over destiny, but it’s completely unconscious: Bob doesn’t know he has it and can’t direct it. Bob's player spends the Fate Points. However, the Fate Points are consistently amplifying the effects of Bob's actions, nature, and intentions: what he wants, not what an omniscient (meta) observer knows he needs.

5. Fate Points can be hoarded (unlike Luck Points) but there is probably going to be a limit on this.

6. Fate Points are distinct from Character Points. The advantage gives you a fixed number of Fate Points (fixed in the rate they refresh, how many you can save up, and/or how many you can spend per scene) and that number does not change after character creation. This fixed number is also going to be the same for everyone, not adjustable (that is, it’s not a leveled advantage).

7. There is no corresponding disadvantage (like Unlukiness to Luck and Destiny disadvantage to Destiny advantage).

8. I'm hoping for something fairly simple, at least to use in-game.



My current rough idea of how to represent this:

Bob starts the game with a fixed number of Fate Points, and they refresh at a fixed in-game (in-universe) time interval. Bob's player cannot get extra Fate Points as a meta reward.

Bob's player can spend 1 Fate Point at any time to (do one of):

1. Declare either a minor detail or change in the world (there is an X object in this room/my pocket, a Y acquaintence in this town, a Z coincidence happens) or a minor story event.

2. Decide the specific results of Bob’s critical success on a non-damage roll.

3. Or decide the specific results of a non-ally’s critical failure on a non-damage roll. (not certain about this one)

Each use must either (one of):

1. Be a consequence of some plausible action Bob took or has taken in the past (which the player can make up on the spot: Bob totally joined the dance club in college!)

2. Advance or further one of Bob's goals or desires, conscious or unconscious

3. Or be related to one of Bob’s mental advantages or disadvantages. (maybe allow it for social ads/disads too)

The GM can veto or modify effects that are imbalanced or which contradict established facts of the setting/campaign. Bob's Fate Points may interfere with the Bob's Destiny (if he has one), but not the Destiny of another character. The GM may not object to an effect just because it interferes with their story plans -- the whole point of the advantage is to give the player a small bit of narrative power.

[Johnny Angel]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

My current rough idea of how to represent this:

Bob starts the game with a fixed number of Fate Points, and they refresh at a fixed in-game (in-universe) time interval. Bob's player cannot get extra Fate Points as a meta reward.

Bob's player can spend 1 Fate Point at any time to:

1. Declare a minor detail or change in the world (there is an X object in this room/my pocket, a Y acquaintence in this town, a Z coincidence happens) or story event as a consequence of some action the character took or has taken in the past. This must advance or further one of Bob's goals or desires, conscious or unconscious.

2. As #1, but it must be related to one of Bob’s mental advantages or disadvantages.

3. Decide the specific results of Bob’s critical success on a non-damage roll;

4. Decide the specific results of a non-ally’s critical failure on a non-damage roll.

The GM can veto or modify effects that are imbalanced or which contradict established facts of the setting/campaign. Bob's Fate Points may interfere with the Bob's Destiny (if he has one), but not the Destiny of another character. The GM may not object to an effect just because it interferes with their story plans -- the whole point of the advantage is to give the player a small bit of narrative power.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I believe this is already an optional GURPS rule.

The only difference I see is that you're calling them "fate points" and making them a different pool from CP... which makes sense to me, and is also something I've done. Decide how many points are the max and at what rate they replenish.


Edit: I see now that you're looking to price it as an advantage. To me, it sounds similar to some sort of Luck which has some sort of Cosmic Modifier combined with a limitation on how often it can be used. You could try looking at those concepts to gain a rough idea of cost to work with.

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

Is this the rule in Impulse-Buys? (Don't have that) or the one in Basic p. 347? My understanding was that both in that book and in Basic, spending character points was something that you mainly did to influence rolls (like Luck Advantage) which I specifically want to forbid. I really want to go in a completely different direction from Luck.

Also, how would you price such a thing as an advantage?



Edit: I read p. 347 and the first (Buying Success) is not what I want, but the second option (Player Guidance) gets close to what I'm looking for. At least that could be one of the things you can spend a Fate Point on, although it would be in addition to the normal effect of your success or failure. But it doesn't provide the other options (based on a past action, a character advantage/disadvantage, or a goal) -- you have to do it immediately in response to a success, not for example when you first ride into town and want to declare that your old drinking buddy lives there.

I'm trying to get an effect that feels like it can take place over a long period of time, so limiting it to the immediate, short-term effects of one roll doesn't get at that.

[Azrael]

It sounds like you should read GURPS Power-Ups 5: Impulse Buys. It gives rules for a point pool similar to what you are describing.

http://e23.sjgames.com/item.html?id=SJG37-0143

[Vaevictis Asmadi]

I read the e23 description and the thread on it and my impression is that it doesn't describe what I'm going for.

Does it have guidelines or rules for making it an advantage restricted to just certain characters, and giving it a point cost, rather than using it as a blanket rule for everybody?

Does it have a way to completely divorce it from the Characer Points economy as a separate kind of points?

Does it do everything on the list in the e23 description or is there any way to customise it so it isn't usable, for example, for buying successes? Are any of the options long-term effects or are they all short-term (like the ones on B:347)?

[Anaraxes]

Also Monster Hunters 1 has a "Destiny" points system. This is completely unlike the stock Destiny advantage, but new rules under the same name.

[Walrus]

Serendipity might do that. Start with Aspected and then proceed with other modifiers. Or just use plain version, your examples don't go far from RAW advantage.
For more examples of Serendipity use, look, e.g., Action 2 (it has a lot of examples to use it in chases), though other respective genre supplements (DF 2 and MH 2) suggest a couple of Serendipity uses as well.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Does it have guidelines or rules for making it an advantage restricted to just certain characters, and giving it a point cost, rather than using it as a blanket rule for everybody?

Yes. Page 18.

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Does it have a way to completely divorce it from the Characer Points economy as a separate kind of points?

Yes. Page 18.

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Does it do everything on the list in the e23 description or is there any way to customize it so it isn't usable, for example, for buying successes?

Sure. Its' a zero-cost feature to be able to spend IP on one thing but not another thing, so long as LP, DP and SP are likewise limited to only appropriate options. "Same range, different center(s)" doesn't cost anything.

Originally Posted by Vaevictis Asmadi

Are any of the options long-term effects or are they all short-term (like the ones on B:347)?

Permanent elements are the rule, temporary elements receive a discount. Page 7.

[Kromm]

In the interest of honesty, GURPS Power-Ups 5: Impulse Buys does assume character points spent on permanent changes as its starting point. However, it doesn't dedicate all or even most of its words to that view. For one thing, it offers numerous variations on the basic currency:

• Character points earmarked for "impulse buys" as distinct from the classic variety intended for long-term character growth (p. 17).
• Supplemental or replacement points bought via the Destiny advantage (p. 5), wildcard skills (p. 5), and/or the Serendipity advantage (p. 8).
• A completely new type of points, Impulse Points (p. 17), whose capacity and refresh rate can be bought directly as advantages (p. 18).

For another, it expands greatly on how any of the above points can be spent. It offers far more options than buying success (these fill most of pp. 7-15) – up to and including points-economy mini-games such as bidding (p. 18) and wagers (p. 19). On the specific matter of player guidance, it explains how to account for scene-appropriateness and permanent vs. fleeting changes (p. 7). And it explicitly states that which of the many options are in use is a campaign-level decision by the GM (pp. 4, 16), and goes on to help the GM decide by identifying especially appropriate and inappropriate options on a genre-by-genre basis (pp. 20-22).

People often speak of it as "the big book of how to spend standard character points on the stuff on p. B347," but that's a grossly deficient view of the work.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Kromm

People often speak of it as "the big book of how to spend standard character points on the stuff on p. B347," but that's a grossly deficient view of the work.

Yeah, IB is pretty small and yet pretty tightly packed with neat advice. Not all of it immediately useful, but it's still very cool for a small PDF. Mostly a toolkit, of course, but still. And now I'm wondering about integration of PU5:IB and the Crazy Prepared Abilities from the Action issue of Pyramid . . .