Understanding Spell Ranges

[Ndreare]

I am trying to understand spell ranges correctly.


Scenario: A player uses "Shape Earth" to create a bridge across a chasim. The spell is a Regular spell.

The bridge is 60' across (20 yards), the spell caster reaches out with his staff touches the earth at his feet causing it to stretch across the 60' chasim. Creating a bridge that was 1/2 a yard thick, 1 yard wide and 60' long. The players all then race across while he maintains it before it colapses.

Does the player suffer a range modifier of -0 (because he is touching it with his staff) or does he suffer a -20 because the far end of the bridge is 60' away?

I ruled in the moment that he was touching the earth being shaped so no modifier, but was uncertain if that was right as in most situations you are always touching the earth even if making a bridge 1000' long.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Ndreare

I am trying to understand spell ranges correctly.


Scenario: A player uses "Shape Earth" to create a bridge across a chasim. The spell is a Regular spell.

The bridge is 60' across (20 yards), the spell caster reaches out with his staff touches the earth at his feet causing it to stretch across the 60' chasim. Creating a bridge that was 1/2 a yard thick, 1 yard wide and 60' long. The players all then race across while he maintains it before it colapses.

Does the player suffer a range modifier of -0 (because he is touching it with his staff) or does he suffer a -20 because the far end of the bridge is 60' away?

I ruled in the moment that he was touching the earth being shaped so no modifier, but was uncertain if that was right as in most situations you are always touching the earth even if making a bridge 1000' long.

You are correct. As long as the spell starts where the character is touching, there's no range penalty. This is made clear in the rules for area spells, where the range is counted from the nearest edge of the area affected.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Ndreare

Does the player suffer a range modifier of -0 (because he is touching it with his staff) or does he suffer a -20 because the far end of the bridge is 60' away?

Dog Love the Staff for giving 2 extra hexes of range/touch for 36 years.

[Ndreare]

Awesome, thanks for helping me be certain.

PS: Also yes, we are loving the staff actually meaning something.

[Plane]

Never noticed this spell .. I'm not sure I understand why a column or wall couldn't be stable though. There doesn't seem to be any functional difference between an extremely steep hill and a wall. Stability would be something like height related to width I assume but it seems like there should be some gradual increase in difficulty rather than a hard cap.

Also as I imagine these structures aren't indestructible we get into that territory of "how much weight can a horizontal wall used as a bridge support" which I think came up with people using Innate Attack for this. Maintaining an unstable earth construct wouldn't guarantee it had the HP/DR needed to sustain your footfalls.

Looks like PK approached this in 2015

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=10

basically estimates 1-yard falls as a 'bumpy crossing' to approximate it. Though I could see varying this based on Size Modifier of whatever is crossing it, like estimate falls based on half the height of the creature.

So if 2y humans use 1y falls for their step then 200y giants should use 100y falls?

You could halve this for someone who is kneeling (they're shuffling, not taking big steps) and halve it again for crawlers (they're spreading weight across 2 hexes moving quadripedally) which IMO should also apply to wheeled vehicles.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Plane

I'm not sure I understand why a column or wall couldn't be stable though. There doesn't seem to be any functional difference between an extremely steep hill and a wall.

"Extremely steep" hills are also unstable. Every bulk particulate material has some slope that can maintain itself, based on the material properties. Civil engineers like to call it the "angle of repose". Slopes too steep will level themselves out as higher material slides down the slope until it reaches the angle at which the pile becomes stable.

The spell text is saying that as long you're maintaining the magic, you can certainly shape earth into forms that it cannot naturally maintain, but as soon as you drop the spell, the earth will behave as it does naturally. How fast the unstable structure collapses would depend on the material, the amount, and its environment. (Up to you how much you want to turn your game into an engineering homework problem.)

Typical angles of repose for various types of earth range from around 35 - 50 degrees. Hills steeper than that will level themselves out eventually. Even strong material like stone have an angle of repose, which is why the Pyramids survive even while something there is that does not love a wall.