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Old 07-23-2021, 02:10 PM   #1
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default characters untargetable by Secret Spell : Invest in Horror Magic?

On pg 9 the 1st talks about a "willing subject" so I assume you'd need an IQ/Will of at least 1/1 (ie you're Sentient)

but then 2nd paragraph talks about only if they respond “Yes.”

1) does "Cannot Speak" prevent it since you can't orate the word yes, or would using sign language to say the word yes (or even using the gesture skill to use a "yes" gesture such as a nod?) be acceptable substitutes?

2) "no requirement to reveal the full truth about the spell!" seems to imply you need to have SOME level of understanding about the spell (otherwise you'd expect to see "no requirement to reveal ANYTHING about the spell") but not exactly what... like do you actually need to believe magic exists?
You have to answer “Do I accept this investiture?” which sounds like you actually ask yourself the question (otherwise wouldn't the caster say "Do YOU accept this investiture?") which in that case seems to imply that you do need to have grasp of some form of language because a sentence like that seems to go beyond what gesture alone could convey (though sign language could probably communicate it)

Plus obviously you would need to be able to understand the instruction to ask yourself this question in the ritual, an instruction someone else (most likely the caster) would need to communicate to you in a means you understand (ie they'd also need to know sign language if you were deaf, or speak in a language you understand, or use telepathy)

Sapience (IQ 6+) includes "the ability to use language" so that'd rule out stuff like "I use the ritual on my IQ 4 cat to give him Magery!". If you have IQ 5 or less you cannot "possess Languages" which sounds like it would prohibit reciting "do I accept this investiture".

A zombie might say "yes!" constantly instead of "brains" despite being otherwise Cannot Speak... and you could also train a parrot to say "yes!" on command (maybe even a more complex six-word-sentence like "Do I accept this investure? Yes!" ?) but in either case that's just "I know to repeat these sounds" not "I know what these sounds represent"

I would speculate that a parrot would actually be considered to be "asking a question" or "answering a question" when they speak phrases since they shouldn't be able to understand what a question or answer IS...

B458-9 covers the upper limits of sub-sapient sentients (IQ3 horse / IQ4 dog / IQ5 monkey) which seem to cover some complex ideas beyond the IQ 2 reptile ("food is ready" and "don't bite the hand that feeds you") which makes me wonder how close they come to language...
a) come when called if you feel like it (horse)
b) find me something (dog)
c) ~above with complexity like in movies~ (monkey)
If anything bordered on that it might be monkey-tier. Stuff like "Clever Hands" is apparently a scam (horses might be able to do basic math for their own purposes like "how many sugar cubes were in my dish" but probably don't understand "one step forward" vs "two steps forward".

Like you could probably design tricks for "one step forward" vs "two steps forward" but that doesn't necesaarily mean a horse understands what "one" or "two" actually mean, like to the point where they could discern combinations with "backward" on their own?

Not sure if maybe one of the supplements goes into more detail for the limits of trainability and emulating language complexity with training here...

Bestial's "cannot understand property" makes me wonder if domesticated (lacks B124 disadvantage) animals CAN understand it? The concept but obviously not the word. IE domesticated dogs learn not to eat off your plate (when you're looking) though I don't really know how that differs from "territory" (ie beta wolf knows not to steal alpha wolf's meat... but that's more about fearing consequence than property laws... you could argue that's ultimately what domestic animals do in respect to humans?)

The way "a third party within 10 yards" spoils your 24-hour ritual meditation also seems like a consideration here: the presence of an IQ 2 rat within 30 feet wrecking the spell would seem weird, so maybe "party" should be interpreted "another sentient creature" ?

In this way it would resemble B67's Solitary ("for every sapient" rather than sentient) and I would imagine a similar policy would make sense for Enchanting too, despite M17's "If anyone but the caster and his assistants is within 10 yards" not specifying sapients.

Even if you have a reliable ratcatcher (dog or cat) around to keep those IQ 2 reptiles/rodents away, there still might be some hypothetical IQ 1 mosquito (or would most insects actually be more IQ 0 like a venus fly trap? pure instinct no sentience?) that could disrupt you unless you made sub-sapient exceptions (ie your IQ 3 horse in the stable 9 yards away doesn't inflict a -1)

Some middle ground there could maybe be a policy like "-1 per collective 6 IQ points of subsapients" so 3 snakes with IQ2 nine yards away would only give -1 to your enchantment roll?

Anyway IQ 1-5 stuff aside, I guess I'm also thinking about "what about IQ 6+ robots who shouldn't be able to gain the ability to cast magic" and them having some kind of inability to gain magery in this way.

I don't know if "cannot be given advantage X" would be worth a quirk-level disadvantage (it's probably pretty rare) and there is arguably an advantageous nature to such a thing. If SS:Invest won't work on you then you won't have an annoying evil mage trying to recruit you into his cult, for example.

Plus if this came by a means like Affliction 1 (Limited Magery 0 +10%) [11] and you could avoid taking on Magery 0 (Switchable +10%; Uncontrollable -10%; Costs HP 4/s -80%) then you're being protected from an insidious form of "dangerous benefit"

So maybe something like that actually should be either a 0pt feature or even a perk?
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horror magic, limited magery, sapience, secret spell: invest, solitary

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