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Old 06-02-2021, 04:46 AM   #1
Prince Charon
 
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Default [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

This is sort of like a reversed Ritual Path Magic system, in that RPM is an Energy Accumulating Path/Book system that uses a version of the Nouns from Noun-Verb Magic as Paths, and uses the Verbs as what you do with the Path, while this is an Effect Shaping Path/Book system which uses the Verbs as Paths, and the Nouns to describe what is being affected by them. The idea is a bit inspired by the way the Schools of Magic in a well-known fantasy game are mostly Verb-like in this context.

Path of Communication
Path of Control
Path of Creation
Path of Destruction
Path of Motion
Path of Protection
Path of Sensing
Path of Strengthening
Path of Transformation
Path of Weakening

Binding is part of Control, Healing is part of Strengthening, and Summoning is part of Communication. Bestowing a Bonus is part of Strengthening and Bestowing a Penalty is part of Weakening. Adding an advantage would normally fall under Strengthening, but if it's different enough (in the GM's opinion) from what the subject already has, it could fall under Creation or Transformation. Likewise, adding a disadvantage or removing an advantage would mostly fall under Weakening, but could also be covered by Transformation, Destruction, or possibly even Creation. Where the ritual could fall under multiple Paths and none is obviously the best fit, use the one which the caster has the highest skill in. (GMs may wish to change which Verbs have a Path, and/or the number of Paths, of course, or alter the Nouns, below.)


The penalty of the ritual is determined by what is being affected (the Noun or Nouns), as well as duration, and intensity (how much damage is done, how high the DR or IT is, how much mass is being moved, et cetra). The Size and Speed/Range Table helps, here, but the distance to the target of the ritual is either irrelevant, or uses the Long-Distance modifiers (Basic Set p241).

Nouns:

Air -2
Animal -2
Body -3
Earth -2
Fire -2
Food -1
Image -2
Light -2
Magic -3
Mind -3
Nothingness -4
Plant -1
Sound -1
Spirit -3
Water -2

There should be more here, but this is just a first draft to get the concept written up and ask questions. For example, how long does a ritual take for a non-Adept? Ten minutes modified by various factors, maybe (e.g. the longer the ritual, the lower the final penalty)? Should thirty minutes be the base time?

What else am I missing?
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Old 06-02-2021, 07:47 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

What else am I missing?

Time? Objects? How would you model "information" spells such as "know the history of a place or an object"?

Anyway, I love your idea. Please keep developing it.
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Old 06-02-2021, 11:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
What else am I missing?

Time? Objects? How would you model "information" spells such as "know the history of a place or an object"?.
Path of Sensing
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Old 06-02-2021, 01:39 PM   #4
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
[B][I]How would you model "information" spells such as "know the history of a place or an object"?
In roughly decreasing order of relevance, which might shift a bit depending on exactly how you phrase the information spell:
  1. Sensing
  2. Communication (which overlaps "sensing" quite a bit)
  3. Creation (the end result of sensing is creation of appropriate analogous structures in your brain and mind)
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Old 06-03-2021, 04:55 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by lvalero View Post
What else am I missing?

Time? Objects? How would you model "information" spells such as "know the history of a place or an object"?

Anyway, I love your idea. Please keep developing it.
Thank you.

Time would probably fall under some version of the Size and Speed/Range Table, but I'm too tired to find the version that I really think I've seen somewhere. Objects would fall under Nouns unless I'm misunderstanding you (because my sleep cycle is being annoying and I'm online mainly to have something to do while I eat). Information has been answered by David Johnston2 and Anaraxes, though the latter has given me an idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
In roughly decreasing order of relevance, which might shift a bit depending on exactly how you phrase the information spell:
  1. Sensing
  2. Communication (which overlaps "sensing" quite a bit)
  3. Creation (the end result of sensing is creation of appropriate analogous structures in your brain and mind)
Using Path of Creation for that would boggle users of RPM and most other Path/Book systems. To them, that would emphatically be doing it the hard way, whereas someone who happens to be far better at Path of Creation than the other two simply finds this the easiest way to go about it.
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Last edited by Prince Charon; 06-05-2021 at 06:35 AM.
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Old 06-06-2021, 09:02 AM   #6
cultureulterior
 
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
What else am I missing?
This sounds pretty good

I'd like time as a noun as well. For new magic systems, my recent go-to spell to simulate is the chronological retcon of a disease (anyone who had it didn't have it, even in the past) that Wake does in Graydon Saunders' Commonweal. I think I could do that with Path of Transformation and the Time noun, and the speed/range table.
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Old 06-07-2021, 04:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

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Originally Posted by cultureulterior View Post
This sounds pretty good

I'd like time as a noun as well. For new magic systems, my recent go-to spell to simulate is the chronological retcon of a disease (anyone who had it didn't have it, even in the past) that Wake does in Graydon Saunders' Commonweal. I think I could do that with Path of Transformation and the Time noun, and the speed/range table.
I think if I were doing Time it would be -4, like Nothingness. Space might or might not be -3, or the Noun could be Spacetime (aka Correspondence/Connection/Crossroads), instead.
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-- Tacitus

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Old 06-21-2021, 04:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Currently thinking of worldlines where VPM might be used, as a side effect of finding a place for a character I'm working on that uses it to exist. Imagine a close parallel of the Secret Magic variety, with a number of regular Path/Book styles. in the mid-fifteenth century, Gutenburg develops movable type and the printing press, leading to all sorts of books becoming widely available, including books on magic and alchemy. As the European Renaissance grows and spreads, new magical skills and new styles of magic are invented and modified by various thaumatologists, and magic becomes, in some areas, less secret. Verbal Path Magic is one of these, and for its effectiveness and adaptability, a variety of styles are created or modified for it.

Thoughts?
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-- Tacitus

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Old 07-08-2021, 04:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

Went back to look at Monster Hunters 1, which is my go-to for RPM (since I still don't have Thaumatology: RPM, and am not sure that I really want to get it). On page 35 is the chart I had vaguely recalled existed, which lists the energy costs for weight, damage, and duration. Looking at the chart, it seems to me that switching the signs (same numbers, just a -# to skill instead of +# to energy) should fit VPM well enough. What do you think?
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-- Tacitus

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Old 07-08-2021, 02:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: [Thaumatology] Verbal Path Magic

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Originally Posted by Prince Charon View Post
(since I still don't have Thaumatology: RPM, and am not sure that I really want to get it).
It's a nice extension of the material in MH1. You don't have to have it if you've got MH1 -- but then, you don't have to have anything in GURPS other than Characters and Campaigns, as long as you're willing to build the rest. Might be worthwhile if you use RPM a lot. If it's just a touchstone for reference when you compare magic systems, MH1 is probably enough.
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