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Old 06-20-2012, 06:29 AM   #11
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Originally Posted by philreed View Post
Cards allow for easy future expansion and errata fixes.
Interesting. I'm having some trouble imagining what phase-related role cards could take in Car Wars that would be subject to expansions and errata. I look forward to the time you're ready to tell us about the mechanic.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

Star Fleet Battles has a set of "Impulse Cards" that makes their 32 phase movement chart a lot more playable. You can read off the next phase that each possible speed will move.

Many tactics in the game involve "movement chart abuse" in order to sneak an extra hex of movement with a mid-turn speed change depending on when you execute it.

In response to this... some players shuffle the impulse cards in order to add some additional uncertainty to the game.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Star Fleet Battles has a set of "Impulse Cards" that makes their 32 phase movement chart a lot more playable. You can read off the next phase that each possible speed will move.
I think I get it (though you might be surprised how difficult it is to find details on how impulse cards are used in the game). Looks like you have a stack of cards that tells you what you can do on each impulse -- so in Car Wars, you might have (let's say) a stack of 5 phase cards, which you turn over one at a time as the phase changes, and they tell you what you can do (based, I assume, on current speed -- so there would be a chart on the card). Is that in the light-cone of correct? No, but then shuffling them wouldn't make sense. And I still don't know what you would do with expansions.

Nope, I'm in the dark, sadly. Ah, well. The Esteemed Mister Reed shall at some point explain, or he shan't.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Many tactics in the game involve "movement chart abuse" in order to sneak an extra hex of movement with a mid-turn speed change depending on when you execute it.
I'm not familiar with SFB so I don't know about that specifically but I think the move to the 5-phase chart in CW eliminates (or at least greatly mitigates) this possibility.

Definitely something to think about in the new version.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:00 AM   #15
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Originally Posted by thudthwacker View Post
Interesting. I'm having some trouble imagining what phase-related role cards could take in Car Wars that would be subject to expansions and errata. I look forward to the time you're ready to tell us about the mechanic.
Imagine if players each had four cards at the start of each turn. The cards are selected based on speed at the start of the turn. The players then play one card each phase; this is their distance moved that phase.

I have some ideas jotted down, but that's the simple core.

How would expansions affect this? Now imagine if players could supplement a movement card with one that is affected by a device -- say an accessory that gives a one-time boost -- or through an incident.

But this is all at the roughest stages and hasn't been completed or tested.

But what I want to do is find ways to get more of the game OUT of tables in the book and onto the table where the game is being played. Focus on the game and NOT on the game book when you're playing.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Imagine if players each had four cards at the start of each turn. The cards are selected based on speed at the start of the turn. The players then play one card each phase; this is their distance moved that phase.
Why would the distance moved every phase be anything other than 1/4 the total distance for the turn?

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How would expansions affect this? Now imagine if players could supplement a movement card with one that is affected by a device -- say an accessory that gives a one-time boost -- or through an incident.
In all honesty, this sounds like it might be a fun game but it isn't Car Wars.

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But what I want to do is find ways to get more of the game OUT of tables in the book and onto the table where the game is being played. Focus on the game and NOT on the game book when you're playing.
I agree with your desire but I'm not really sold on the card idea (and I know you said it is a rough idea at this time).

I really think the way to do what you want is to rethink the phase/turn scheme. I think a 1/5 second turn where you move a fixed distance each turn based on your speed (and this can be as simple as one-movement-unit-as-set-on-the-turning-key), can only fire once every five turns (or possibly quicker with a penalty), and have gradual HC recovery every turn, will eliminate the need for the movement chart.

Two critical elements will be the turning key and your vehicle readout which will take care of monitoring your HC, speed, firing actions, etc.

The only rub I see is how you are going to allow maneuvers at lower speeds. Are you going to let someone going 10 mph make a maneuver each turn (which would be five over the course of one second vs. the one over the course of one second in 2.5) or would there be a delay between maneuvers? Now you are swinging back from simplicity into complexity which is what you are trying to avoid.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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Originally Posted by philreed View Post
Imagine if players each had four cards at the start of each turn. The cards are selected based on speed at the start of the turn. The players then play one card each phase; this is their distance moved that phase.

I have some ideas jotted down, but that's the simple core...

But what I want to do is find ways to get more of the game OUT of tables in the book and onto the table where the game is being played. Focus on the game and NOT on the game book when you're playing.
Aha, I see -- many thanks for the clarification. I concur wholeheartedly with the wish to make frequent trips to the rulebook unnecessary. One of the things I really do like about the 3X scale is that you can fit some of the charts on the turning key -- but of course, trying to put them on a 1x turning key wouldn't work at all. Sounds like cards might be a great way to, as you say, keep the game on the table.
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Old 06-20-2012, 08:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

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In all honesty, this sounds like it might be a fun game but it isn't Car Wars.
I am sure the new forums will help focus on what "Car Wars" is. I am hoping to have time to construct what I am thinking and post it to the new forums for playtest. Otherwise I'll just be posting a mass of notes there and building it live, on the new forums, with the help of others.

The Car Wars project will be a lot of fun.

First, though, back to Ogre.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

The game mechanic that immediately comes to mind here is the card systems of the block war games that I've played-- Liberty and Hellenes, for example.

A big war game could be a dull grind of a game-- think Risk, but with more complexity and play time. The cards have a variety of events that you may or may not be able to use... and they have pips that you could (alternately) use the do typical actions. The net effect is that you can't do everything... and the optimal action may not be possible depending on what you're dealt... and you also have to budget when you want your good cards to come out.

Yeah... this would not be the simulationism of traditional Car Wars, but it may actually better model the chaos of a vehicular melee than 5th edition's "shoot, point blank shot, ram" tactics.

The question is how to deal with variable speeds.... I dunno... maybe go with each player having their own deck... and then the main part of the card would be your action pips as a function of their current speed. By limiting a car to just one "special action" a turn... you'd have an easy way to do mid-turn speed changes while usually just having a setting of 20, 40, 60, 80, or 100 mph. (Actually... they'd correspond to the 5 gears.)

I can see special one shot attacks that are removed from the deck after their use... (each player has their own deck) and maybe the ATG would maybe be removed from the deck for a turn-- decreasing your chance of being able to fire it the next turn-- and maybe lotsa cards with MG symbols that let you fire them almost every phase most of the time.
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Old 06-20-2012, 05:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Sliding phase scale - anyone tried it?

I can see a pretty easy way of doing card-based movement.

Assuming CWC style movement, each card represents 1" per turn of movement. Each player during their turn takes one card for every 10mph they are driving. If they're driving at a *5mph, one of those cards must be a half-inch move.

Each card has a maneuver on it, from "drive in a straight line" to "90 degree turn". In fact, the angle of the turn might be printed on the card, so that you can use the card itself as a turning key.

The idea would be that you would "program" your movement through a turn, though there would have to be some way to change your mind mid-turn in reaction to what everyone else is doing. (Maybe: if one driver can see another, you have to show them what you're doing; if two can see each other, they all have to show each other; maybe for simplicity, they're all set out face up.)

I'm almost thinking it doesn't matter how many phases there are in a turn when you do this. Everyone plays a card and makes their move (maybe in order from fastest to slowest, or of reflexes, but the movement itself is assumed to happen simultaneously) then repeat until everyone has played all of their movement.

Slower cars will drop out of movement as the turn proceeds, though there might be some "this card does nothing, though your next card must be a move" to fill out slower drivers' hands. (To do it with, for example, 5 phases, each player would have to fill their hand up to 10 cards, and each card would be either 0, 1/2", or 1" of movement, and players might play two cards in a phase.)

Might be a way to add acceleration and deceleration into that as well.

Everyone should have the full set of cards available to them, unless there are certain maneuvers they can't perform due to their speed (in fact this might also be a way to handle things like "you can't make a 90 degree turn at 100mph"). Two- and three-phase maneuvers (bootlegger reverse) have one card for each phase involved.

Now I want to playtest this.
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Last edited by Chris Goodwin; 06-20-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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