Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > Roleplaying in General

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2022, 05:50 PM   #51
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
I'm not saying this is great—energy/area would probably make more sense than energy/linear dimension. But there might be a method to the madness.
In the real world if you multiply the size of a projectile (in all dimensions) by N, while not changing shape or speed or composition, you multiply penetration by N. The effects of changing speed on penetration can range from the second power to less than zero, but is usually less than linear in energy.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 10:14 AM   #52
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
In the real world if you multiply the size of a projectile (in all dimensions) by N, while not changing shape or speed or composition, you multiply penetration by N. The effects of changing speed on penetration can range from the second power to less than zero, but is usually less than linear in energy.
Out of curiosity, what happens if you lengthen a projectile while keeping diameter constant?
__________________
Handle is a character from the Star*Drive setting (a.k.a. d20 Future), not my real name.
Michael Thayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 10:41 AM   #53
Polydamas
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Europe
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
It dawns on me that under the hood, GURPS may be trying to scale damage from projectiles and collisions as sqrt(energy/linear dimension).
If you want to see the formula for projectile damage, I think there is a copy in the bow design rules and associated spreadsheet. There was an early version on Pyramid #2, maybe in some designer's notes. The trouble of keeping track of these things without citations is one reason I'm not such a GURPS grognard any more. Better to just have fun building and playing!
__________________
"It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper
Polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 10:49 AM   #54
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Out of curiosity, what happens if you lengthen a projectile while keeping diameter constant?
I suggest http://panoptesv.com/RPGs/Equipment/...le_physics.php
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 11:03 AM   #55
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Out of curiosity, what happens if you lengthen a projectile while keeping diameter constant?
The simple version is that (as long as velocity remains constant) penetration of armor goes up in proportion to the increase in mass.
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 12:16 PM   #56
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
The simple version is that (as long as velocity remains constant) penetration of armor goes up in proportion to the increase in mass.
While that's a more reliable formula than anything you can do for mass, there are still plenty of conditions under which it's false.
__________________
My GURPS site and Blog.
Anthony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2022, 01:40 PM   #57
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
While that's a more reliable formula than anything you can do for mass, there are still plenty of conditions under which it's false.
You'll notice that I made it "penetration of armor" rather than just "damage"? That's just the beginning of simplifications you have to make to come up with a simple statement. I didn't even try and explain "sectional density".
__________________
Fred Brackin
Fred Brackin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2022, 01:15 PM   #58
Michael Thayne
 
Michael Thayne's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

I wound up grabbing a copy of BTRC's Fires of Heaven, a sci-fi game that seems to want to pay attention to realism. The spaceship combat section emphasizes that routinely engaging in spaceship combat will get you killed, and that the section is very much a "use what you need for your campaign and no more". Oddly, though, while relative speed impacts ramming, missile speed seems to be entirely abstracted out, even though it seems like it should be variable, at least in cases of what GURPS Spaceships calls "fast pass" combat.
__________________
Handle is a character from the Star*Drive setting (a.k.a. d20 Future), not my real name.
Michael Thayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2022, 04:10 AM   #59
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
I have always been partial to the Knight Hawks rules of the Star Frontiers RPG. In addition to a fast-playing but fairly detailed spaceship board wargame, plus a massive wartime military campaign, it is an expansion of the RPG into spaceships and has a complete spaceship-design system, down to the complete list of programs in the ship's computer and the number of airlocks. It not only has costs for everything, but also lists all the spaceship construction centers in the Frontier, the time you have to wait to get into one, and the time it takes to build your ship.
My recollection of that system is that how fast ships were and how manoeuvrable was strongly based on what hull you chose and was pretty arbitrary.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2022, 04:17 AM   #60
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: What RPG has the best spaceship design system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cptbutton View Post
"Space Opera" from FGU had a ship design system and space combat system, in fitting with the same "total campaign"* concept as "Chivalry and Sorcery."

That said, I don't recall enough about it to say if it was good or bad, but it was definitely on the very soft end of the scale.
It wasn't awful, as long as you stayed with small ships. However, the books of warships, while fun reads for nerdy types that like poring over stats with small but possibly (but probably not) meaningful differences, ignored the design rules.

For large ships toughness scales up faster than firepower, and ships get slow (comparatively speaking), so it devolves into a very long and tedious slugging match.

There's also an oddity where in general whether or not an attacker can penetrate your shields doesn't actually affect how long it takes to pound your ship to scrap.

The author said that how badly they broke the rules with warships was set for each navy, but that he'd long-since lost his drafts and notes (and he passed away years ago). Apparently the stats were done in something like a single weekend, so I don't imagine there was a lot of number-checking, let alone play-testing.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.