New Reality Seeds

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Japan is in deep mourning because the Emperor and most of his close family are dead. The Japanese have declared a republic.

Japan declaring a republic at this point is weird and suspicious, with even a few of the Imperial Family still alive (it implies that everyone with noticeable legitimacy is very unacceptable and/or very opposed to taking power). It suggests not only the deaths of pro-Imperial politicians and military officers (so, most of them), but most or all of the many people who could lead a pro-Imperial revolution (so, lots of people). Did this Japan just lose 50% or more of their population? Too much less than that and (AFAICT) they'd need to be extremely well-targeted (not just knowledge of history, but actual precognition), while still covering rather large numbers.

EDIT: To my understanding, in Japanese culture of that era, the Emperor is metaphorically best represented as 'somewhere between where the Pope and Jesus are in Catholicism.' Maybe not the best or most accurate metaphor, but I think it conveys the idea.

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Japan declaring a republic at this point is weird and suspicious, with even a few of the Imperial Family still alive (it implies that everyone with noticeable legitimacy is very unacceptable and/or very opposed to taking power). It suggests not only the deaths of pro-Imperial politicians and military officers (so, most of them), but most or all of the many people who could lead a pro-Imperial revolution (so, lots of people). Did this Japan just lose 50% or more of their population? Too much less than that and (AFAICT) they'd need to be extremely well-targeted (not just knowledge of history, but actual precognition), while still covering rather large numbers.

EDIT: To my understanding, in Japanese culture of that era, the Emperor is metaphorically best represented as 'somewhere between where the Pope and Jesus are in Catholicism.' Maybe not the best or most accurate metaphor, but I think it conveys the idea.

There are strict limits on who can ascend to the Imperial Throne of Japan. All those allowable got killed by the plague. Japan is in a state of shock, but unless there was a survivor in the Imperial Family who could adopt an appropriate child (the rules for adopting an Imperial Heir, although now rather tight, were more flexible in period) there are no heirs.

Lacking an Imperial Heir the people of Japan are in deep and profound mourning. But they've decided to face the situation as it is.

More than a few Homeline Japanese people are eager to avenge what they see as brutal cruelty.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

There are strict limits on who can ascend to the Imperial Throne of Japan.

There are *now* but much of that was imposed by the Americans in their 1947 rewrite of the Imperial House Law, and a good deal of the rest is historically recent (adopted by Emperor Meiji modeled on the Prussian House Law). There are a couple dozen people who would've been considered reasonable heirs in 1946, and more than 100 who'd have been candidates in 1868. Recent succession "reform" proposals in Japan generally focus on marrying some of those people to one or more of the currently 6 available princesses and adopting them, but I can't imagine the Japanese wouldn't sit one of them on the throne if everybody allowed in the current House Law dropped dead even now, let alone just after World War II. Of course the American occupiers might try to stop them (maybe all the sane people in the planning loop were dead too) but it won't end well. Strictly speaking I suppose this isn't the same thing as not becoming a Republic - maybe the occupation could make a religious ceremonial Emperor who wasn't technically also Head of State fly without *too* much violence if you insist - but it seems weird. It's not like the Emperor (or the monarchical heads of state of other developed countries) retains much political relevance. Why go to the trouble to remove them?

[Astromancer]

Originally Posted by malloyd

There are *now* but much of that was imposed by the Americans in their 1947 rewrite of the Imperial House Law, and a good deal of the rest is historically recent (adopted by Emperor Meiji modeled on the Prussian House Law). There are a couple dozen people who would've been considered reasonable heirs in 1946, and more than 100 who'd have been candidates in 1868. Recent succession "reform" proposals in Japan generally focus on marrying some of those people to one or more of the currently 6 available princesses and adopting them, but I can't imagine the Japanese wouldn't sit one of them on the throne if everybody allowed in the current House Law dropped dead even now, let alone just after World War II. Of course the American occupiers might try to stop them (maybe all the sane people in the planning loop were dead too) but it won't end well. Strictly speaking I suppose this isn't the same thing as not becoming a Republic - maybe the occupation could make a religious ceremonial Emperor who wasn't technically also Head of State fly without *too* much violence if you insist - but it seems weird. It's not like the Emperor (or the monarchical heads of state of other developed countries) retains much political relevance. Why go to the trouble to remove them?

I wasn't aware that the Imperial Succession wasn't as restricted as it is now. So, a minor member of the Imperial Family, who was educated in the West and served in the diplomatic service becomes Emperor and adopts three appropriate heirs. His wife is infertile and he isn't willing to divorce her.

Okay?

Mind you the profound shock of this world's Japanese people and the determination of Homeline Japanese to punish the culprits remain.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Astromancer

Mind you the profound shock of this world's Japanese people and the determination of Homeline Japanese to punish the culprits remain.

Oh, yes, absolutely. Also, a lot of people on Homeline would be very concerned about finding the culprits to make sure this wasn't a trial run for an attack on Homeline, and that would include the Homeline Japanese.

[TGLS]

Wunderwaffen worlds are worlds where advanced technology was deployed in a war that happened in Homeline, but generally had minimal impact in that particular war.

Wunderwaffen-1 (Q6, 1949): Diverged with the deployment of V2 armed submarines. The half-dozen attacks on the East Coast had more of a psychological impact on the United States than it did in material damage (though the replacement for Lady Liberty has had many cost overruns). Isolationism (or at least a strong anti-war lobby) has re-emerged in the post-war United States, so much so that it appears likely that Soviet adventurism will go unchallenged, at least for the early cold war.

Wunderwaffen-2 (Q6, 1953): Diverged with the development of a Japanese atomic bomb in 1944. Deployed at Leyte Gulf, the destruction of the 7th Fleet certainly hurt, but all this resulted in was the clearing out of the Soviet spy-ring (the Americans cleaned house, assuming the Japanese had somehow penetrated their project) and several Japanese (& German) cities being A-bombed. Nuclear weapons are more seen as very large bombs here, which has led to a reunified Korea, and the Soviets have just finished their first Atomic Bomb.

[Micah Davis]

On Sisyphus-1, (299 BCE; Q3; TL2) death died a hundred twenty three years ago. It is no longer possible for native inhabitants to die. Violence still produces injury, diseases can still wrack the body, hunger still worms in the stomach, but death and age come for no one. In Greece and the Alexandrian territories, there is a widespread belief that Alexander locked up Death itself. At first a celebrated fact, the now immortal population has grown incredibly large and the torment of hunger, injury, and disease no longer seem minor, even as violence has become more acceptable. Death cults pray for deliverance from their agonies even as ever more immortals enter the ranks of the living.

An early experiment by Homeline showed that removing a native renders the effect inert, often killing them in the process, there is now significant controversy within the Miracle Workers as to what should be done to help Sisyphus. Mass relocation risks death, but many Sisyphusians would welcome it. Homeline could intervene to provide medical and agricultural technology. Either way, natives are facing an increasingly miserable eternity if something isn’t done.

[dcarson]

Would be a great place to build a trauma center. You have all the time needed to do the surgery needed.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by TGLS

Wunderwaffen-1 (Q6, 1949): Diverged with the deployment of V2 armed submarines. The half-dozen attacks on the East Coast had more of a psychological impact on the United States than it did in material damage (though the replacement for Lady Liberty has had many cost overruns). Isolationism (or at least a strong anti-war lobby) has re-emerged in the post-war United States, so much so that it appears likely that Soviet adventurism will go unchallenged, at least for the early cold war.

A key component of isolationism was the belief that others can't hurt us.
Having somebody "successfully" attack is not the kind of thing that I'd believe encourage it, though I suppose I might buy it if you turn your entire country into a militarized fortress state to be sure you could ward off any attack at the same time. Seriously I'm pretty sure no state has ever suffered a minor attack and decided that means they should go insular. Minor attacks make people furious. If you want them to decide to withdraw you have to inflict *severe* trauma.

Wunderwaffen-2 (Q6, 1953): Diverged with the development of a Japanese atomic bomb in 1944.

You probably need an earlier "actual" divergence point to make that plausible. The German atomic program maybe had a chance, but Japan was quite a bit further behind and probably lacked a lot of the resources to have done better. It might not take all that much - people were talking about the possibility of nuclear power and weapons as early as 1930, and a little more government interest, in say 1934 right after the first open publication of the possibility in Japan, when research equipment could still be bought from the US and importing a cargo of uranium ore would've been difficult, might be all that was needed to accelerate the program. It doesn't even need to start as a bomb program - using nuclear reactions as a naval power source that didn't need to carry huge volumes of fuel was in fact a lot more plausible sounding than hoping you'd be able to get the energy out fast enough to produce an explosion.

[TGLS]

Originally Posted by malloyd

A key component of isolationism was the belief that others can't hurt us.
Having somebody "successfully" attack is not the kind of thing that I'd believe encourage it, though I suppose I might buy it if you turn your entire country into a militarized fortress state to be sure you could ward off any attack at the same time. Seriously I'm pretty sure no state has ever suffered a minor attack and decided that means they should go insular. Minor attacks make people furious. If you want them to decide to withdraw you have to inflict *severe* trauma.

That's fair. Here's a modified version:

Wunderwaffen-1A (Q6, 1955): Diverged with the deployment of V2 armed submarines. The half-dozen attacks on the East Coast had more of a psychological impact on the United States than it did in material damage (though the replacement for Lady Liberty has had many cost overruns). American rage at these attacks helped advance the Morgenthau Plan, which led to the full scale deindustrialization of Germany. The Wirtschaftswunder was effectively aborted, German economic refugees accounting for about half of its population are scattered around the world, and dissent in Germany against Western occupation forces is reaching at tipping point.

You probably need an earlier "actual" divergence point to make that plausible. The German atomic program maybe had a chance, but Japan was quite a bit further behind and probably lacked a lot of the resources to have done better.

That's fair. The key reason of the late divergence is:
1) Emphasizing there are few if any butterfly effects
2) Emphasizing Infinity is not omniscient; most of the Japanese records were blown up and the records in the United States (of the selling of the equipment) are probably classified out of embarrassment.