Cyberpunk, Space Travel, and Setting Design

[Inky]

Only on shirtsleeve planets. If it's a domed city (perhaps an initial base on a world that's being terraformed but isn't ready yet) or a small space hab, you're back to towns. (Though cyberpunk spaghetti western might be interesting).

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by RyanW

Actually pretty much every planet. Earth is an unusual case, as the galaxy at large didn't think intelligent life could evolve on world made of murder.

Cimbrean's the only one where Earth life is taking over. This is primarily because Cimbrean is the only one humans have actually colonized (although that's in the process of changing), and the only other planets where they have any significant presence are other Deathworlds that can handle them (although even then, in many cases they often need to be quite careful - Earth's microorganisms are particularly nasty).

Originally Posted by whswhs

Isn't every planet with life a planet with murder?

Deathworlds are much worse than others. Basically, the Corti - the Greys - have a numeric classification system they use for each planet, taking into account things like gravity, intensity of seasonal shifts, prevalence (and severity) of natural disasters, how dangerous native life is, etc. Class 1 (which I'm not sure there are actually any examples of) are extremely safe - you could plop just about anyone from any species there completely naked and they'd likely thrive*. Most habitable planets are class 4 to 6, where fairly basic survival skills are all that's necessary to survive in the above scenario. Class 10 and higher are classified as Deathworlds - high gravity, extreme seasonal shifts, frequent natural disasters, absolutely lethal native life, etc. Plop most sapients down there in the above scenario, they'll probably wind up dead within minutes or hours - a lucky one might last a day or two. Prior to humans getting involved in the galactic scene, it was considered impossible for sapient life to evolve on such a harsh world.

Earth is a high-end Class 12 (IIRC, the only planet with a higher classification - the planet Nightmare - is indicated as actually being more survivable than Earth if you know what you're doing, but got a higher classification because the Corti really hate eccentric orbits, which Nightmare has). The typical weapons used for lethal combat by most military forces - rifle-sized kinetic pulse guns - hit about as hard as a human punch; so-called anti-tank weapons, which will reduce most targets to paste, hit about as hard as a kick from a horse.

*Humorously, humans and other Deathworlders would have difficulty surviving on low-class worlds, due to them having high caloric needs that such worlds often can't satisfy.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Deathworlds are much worse than others. Basically, the Corti - the Greys - have a numeric classification system they use for each planet, taking into account things like gravity, intensity of seasonal shifts, prevalence (and severity) of natural disasters, how dangerous native life is, etc. Class 1 (which I'm not sure there are actually any examples of) are extremely safe - you could plop just about anyone from any species there completely naked and they'd likely thrive*. Most habitable planets are class 4 to 6, where fairly basic survival skills are all that's necessary to survive in the above scenario. Class 10 and higher are classified as Deathworlds - high gravity, extreme seasonal shifts, frequent natural disasters, absolutely lethal native life, etc. Plop most sapients down there in the above scenario, they'll probably wind up dead within minutes or hours - a lucky one might last a day or two. Prior to humans getting involved in the galactic scene, it was considered impossible for sapient life to evolve on such a harsh world.

Ah. I wasn't thinking of physical conditions on the planet as the measure of lethality. I was thinking that other life is the greatest threat to life. I don't expect plants to evolve intelligence; animals live by eating and, often, killing plants; other animals shift to eating and kill animals. Animality as such seems to equal murder.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Varyon

Cimbrean's the only one where Earth life is taking over. This is primarily because Cimbrean is the only one humans have actually colonized (although that's in the process of changing), and the only other planets where they have any significant presence are other Deathworlds that can handle them (although even then, in many cases they often need to be quite careful - Earth's microorganisms are particularly nasty).

Ah, I seem to have misread your comment. I was thinking you were saying that Cimbrean was uniquely vulnerable, rather than that Cimbrean was actually in the process of being taken over.

[Arith Winterfell]

Well a lot of this discussion has led me to ponder if (as someone earlier suggested) I should be thinking in terms of Transhumanism rather than Cyberpunk.

One of my inspirations is the Ghost in the Shell anime/movie series. Mostly in how I find its exploration of humanity as it explores issues of identity, and perception or memory manipulation.

I'm actually kind of turned off by the "thug life" or outlaw emphasis of cyberpunk, and while I in the past thought of Ghost in the Shell as Cyberpunk, I'm actually beginning to wonder if I really should think in terms of general Transhumanism as a basis for the setting.

I do like horror/darker settings however. It may simply be (as IRL I see myself as mostly an academic, and very much a person who follows the rules) that I have a lot of trouble connecting with the "low-life" end of the "hi-tech, low-life" definition of Cyberpunk. Maybe my issue is connecting with a poverty culture (even though in real life I'm poor) or the rocker / punk aesthetic of Cyberpunk.

All that said, I do rather like the idea of fighting oppressive evil corporations type thing. And I find the idea of Cyberpunk's net-running and cyberspace to be what I really find appealing about the Cyberpunk genre.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Arith Winterfell

All that said, I do rather like the idea of fighting oppressive evil corporations type thing. And I find the idea of Cyberpunk's net-running and cyberspace to be what I really find appealing about the Cyberpunk genre.

Yeeeeah. Let me be frank. Netrunning is an idea that sounds neat in theory but doesn't work in actual games unless you are only running one player. Otherwise it forces you to send the game screeching to a halt while one character goes off on its own to do a whole game session covering something that could be handled with a couple of die rolls while the other players just spectate

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Yeeeeah. Let me be frank. Netrunning is an idea that sounds neat in theory but doesn't work in actual games unless you are only running one player. Otherwise it forces you to send the game screeching to a halt while one character goes off on its own to do a whole game session covering something that could be handled with a couple of die rolls while the other players just spectate

I don't know if it HAS to be that way. Vinge's pioneering True Names has a cabal of netrunners (not called by that name, of course) who meet and compare exploits, and two of whom become involved in a shared venture against the real adversary. In principle you could have all the PCs be netrunners together.

For comparison, I'm running a campaign now where all the PCs have met in dreams.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Yeeeeah. Let me be frank. Netrunning is an idea that sounds neat in theory but doesn't work in actual games unless you are only running one player. Otherwise it forces you to send the game screeching to a halt while one character goes off on its own to do a whole game session covering something that could be handled with a couple of die rolls while the other players just spectate

I've been cooking up, in the back of my head, an idea for netrunning and meatspace PC's to actually work together - inspired, in part, by the big mission near the beginning of Cyberpunk 2077, as well as the quickhacks in that game. The basic idea would be that the netrunner(s) would infiltrate a location digitally while the rest of the party infiltrate physically. The netrunner can do limited surveillance oversight (taking over the cameras, possibly messing with the implants of OpFor through them like you can with the quickhacks in the game) and remotely activate some mechanisms (such as unlocking doors the rest of the party needs to go through), while the rest of the party can do physical bypasses to get the netrunner more access, shutdown digital defense mechanisms (like taking a wall of Black ICE offline), neutralize "dwellers" (on-site netrunners handling digital security), etc. I think where most netrunning systems fail to keep the party engaged is that it's all about the netrunner going up against the defenses (including hostile netrunners) of a location while the rest of the party is off doing something else (or - more likely, because the GM can only handle so much at a time - are sitting around twiddling their thumbs). If you have them basically all working toward the same goal, and perhaps more importantly have them interacting with each other's environment, you don't have to separate things out so much.

[thrash]

There's also the Max Headroom approach, where the hacker is following the rest of the party in real time, subverting security cameras, opening doors, etc. It requires de-emphasizing the "cyberspace combat" aspects in favor of more-or-less traditional Thief roles.

To avoid excessive rolling for every device and situation, I would be inclined to use the Alexandrian's "Let It Ride" technique.

Edit to add: ninja'ed.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by thrash

There's also the Max Headroom approach, where the hacker is following the rest of the party in real time, subverting security cameras, opening doors, etc. It requires de-emphasizing the "cyberspace combat" aspects in favor of more-or-less traditional Thief roles.

I'd still have some degree of "cyberspace combat" in play - but a crucial part is to have the meatspace characters not be isolated from it. Their implants may be vulnerable to quickhacks (rebooting their optics, making their limbs malfunction at just the wrong time such that their attack misses or their defense fails, causing outright damage by making some of their implants overheat, etc), there may be mechanisms in the area that can be used as traps (make the console they're taking cover behind explode, release the straps holding a pile of luggage together such that it falls on them, etc), and so forth - and at the same time, the meatspacers may be able to damage the nodes hostile netrunners are using, or maybe even employ their own quickhacks from mobile decks. And of course cobelligerent netrunners may well engage with each other, while the cobelligerent meatspacers literally duke it out. And all of this applies to both sides - a PC meatspacer gets the drop on a guard, but when he tries to ram a blade into the guard's skull a sudden palsy (complements of a well-timed quickhack by a hostile netrunner watching through a camera) turns his hand so he basically just does an ineffectual punch. While they're fighting, the PC netrunner executes a virus that traps the hostile netrunner, then goes in to try to bypass his defenses to shutdown his coolant system, which will cause his own implants to cook his brain. Another hostile netrunner moves to assist her ally and break him free so they can team up on the PC netrunner, but another PC meatspacer shoots (on advice from an awareness-boosting NAI that's keeping an eye on local cyberspace) the computer housing the node she's trying to get in through, forcing her back and delaying her. Stuff like that.

Originally Posted by thrash

To avoid excessive rolling for every device and situation, I would be inclined to use the Alexandrian's "Let It Ride" technique.

This is something I've considered in the past; I'll give this article a closer look when I have more time, but it sounds like a great idea.