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Old 08-21-2020, 08:53 PM   #1
Anders
 
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Default Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

Altered Time Rate (Manual tasks only, -xx%)? This would allow the character to do more than one manual task per round, so he can't move or talk or concentrate. He can attack more than once, provided it's an attack that uses the arms/hands - so he can't kick or bite - and he can't use any one limb more than once. This is meant for creatures with more than two arms, so bear that in mind. I'm tempted to put this at -40% to -60%, probably closer to -40%. What do you think?
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Last edited by Anders; 08-22-2020 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:26 PM   #2
Plane
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Altered Time Rate (Manual tasks only, -xx%)? This would allow the character to do more than one manual task per round, so he can't move or talk or concentrate. He can attack more than once, provided it's an attack that uses the arms/hands - so he can't kick or bite. This is meant for creatures with more than two arms, so bear that in mind. I'm tempted to put this at -40% to -60%, probably closer to -40%. What do you think?
Arm ST for 2 arms is 5/level instead of the 10/level for full ST...

So -50% would seem fair if all you could normally do with ATR was physical tasks.

Since it also includes mental tasks though, I can understand the attraction of making it more.

Arm ST for 3+ arms is 8/level though which is only -20% compared to full ST, so maybe for multi-armed creatures it should just be less, like 25 or 30.
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Old 08-21-2020, 09:53 PM   #3
Ejidoth
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

-50% is probably about right. It's broader than Extra Attack, much narrower than full Altered Time Rate at 100, and comparable to Compartmentalized Mind at 50.
Maybe -60%, since it's sort of 'Compartmentalized Mind but physical' but with an additional 'And no using it to Move'.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:17 PM   #4
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

I would actually value it as if it was DR, a -20% for all arms or a -40% for one arm. I am not quite sure what the utility would be for such an ability. If it only benefits the arms, you cannot take steps during attacks (or move), so you would basically be a turret after your first action. I guess you could spend your ATR actions on attack and then AOD (Dodge) on your normal action, so it would have some marginal utility, but I am not sure it is that much better than Extra Attack. For example, you could take Extra Attack (Arms Only, -20%; Multistrike, +20%) [25] and that would be 55 CP cheaper than ATR (Arms Only, -20%) [80], meaning that you could purchase Extra Attack 2 and Basic Move 6 instead of ATR.
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Old 08-21-2020, 10:50 PM   #5
Plane
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I am not quite sure what the utility would be for such an ability.
If it only benefits the arms, you cannot take steps during attacks (or move), so you would basically be a turret after your first action. I guess you could spend your ATR actions on attack and then AOD (Dodge) on your normal action, so it would have some marginal utility, but I am not sure it is that much better than Extra Attack.
I think OP wants it so it could also be used for non-attack stuff like readying or typing quick too.

IE if we limited ATR further with "Combat Only -20%" THEN we should expect the pricing to be the same.

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
For example, you could take Extra Attack (Arms Only, -20%; Multistrike, +20%) [25] and that would be 55 CP cheaper than ATR (Arms Only, -20%) [80], meaning that you could purchase Extra Attack 2 and Basic Move 6 instead of ATR.
I like the idea of floating Limited (Limb) from DR to EA like they did with Stretching in Powers.

"Boxing Only" is a -20% on P49 so that does seem pretty close to Arms Only...

But then again so is Karate Only (it's all Single Skill) which allows legs too, or even Brawling Only which adds also adds bites/headbutts/slams atop legs
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Old 08-22-2020, 03:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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I think OP wants it so it could also be used for non-attack stuff like readying or typing quick too.
Exactly. Craftsmanship. Have you never wished you had two extra arms?
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Old 08-22-2020, 03:36 AM   #7
awesomenessofme1
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

It's worth comparing this to Non-Combat Speed. Non-Combat Speed only works for "mundane or repetitive" tasks (and nothing combat-related), but it's -60% and allows you to use the Speed/Range Table to determine your effective level. With that as a point of comparison, I'd be hesitant to put the limitation value at less than -40%, and it might be higher.
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Old 08-22-2020, 08:01 AM   #8
oneofmanynameless
 
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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It's worth comparing this to Non-Combat Speed. Non-Combat Speed only works for "mundane or repetitive" tasks (and nothing combat-related), but it's -60% and allows you to use the Speed/Range Table to determine your effective level. With that as a point of comparison, I'd be hesitant to put the limitation value at less than -40%, and it might be higher.
Although it seems like what we're going for would also allow you to essentially take two ready maneuvers per round in combat for things like readying an arrow, ammo, grenades, etc. By which I mean that it does have combat applications.
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Old 08-22-2020, 09:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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Originally Posted by oneofmanynameless View Post
Although it seems like what we're going for would also allow you to essentially take two ready maneuvers per round in combat for things like readying an arrow, ammo, grenades, etc. By which I mean that it does have combat applications.
Oh absolutely. It includes Extra Attack, as long as it's done with your hands. You cannot use any limb more than once, though, so you can attack with two weapons held in two different hands, but not twice with the same weapon.
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Old 08-22-2020, 10:04 AM   #10
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Default Re: Altered Time Rate (Manual Tasks Only, -xx%)

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Oh absolutely. It includes Extra Attack, as long as it's done with your hands. You cannot use any limb more than once, though, so you can attack with two weapons held in two different hands, but not twice with the same weapon.
I recently built this effect for a spell that was intended to draw on the spirit totem of... umm... the human to grant some of the benefits of bipedal locomotion. I priced it at -70%. the things I was mostly noting were not being able to use the ATR for extra concentrate maneuvers, for extra movement, and all the actions have to take place at the same time (more or less) so you can't make use of a given limb more than once. But in retrospect I might lower it down to -50%. It's very nearly "Extra Attack (+100% can swap for ready maneuvers)". Idk if that's +100% or not but seems relatively fair. And 50 cp per extra physical non-movement action seems on par with compartmentalized mind which feels good.
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