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Old 08-04-2020, 04:49 PM   #1
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

In a similar fashion to the nerfed Marvel thread, I thought it would be interesting to write up a proposal for the DC universe where the characters were more grounded and less godlike. These write ups are intended to be budget friendly (generally closer to 500 points, under 1000 points) and point effective as if players were creating them for characters to run for the first time in a game set in modern times (year 2020).

In many cases the inspiration is from much earlier incarnations (hence the Golden Age) where they were first introduced or just much weaker. The power level is *much* lower than the present DC version of these characters. For example: Superman is strong enough to pick up a car, can leap ~1/8th of a mile, outrun an express train, and is mostly bulletproof as he was depicted in this first 1938 comic. This Superman doesn't fly, see through walls, travel through time, or possess massive technology from an ancient civilization. Superman still hopelessly outclasses "normal" people, though.

Notes:
- Afflictions will use Innate Attack with Side Effect. Afflictions that work on anything will use the crushing cost. Afflictions that work only on living creatures will use the Toxic cost.
- Aging traits are mostly 0 point background information. Immunity to aging is 5 points.
- Costs fatigue will be -10% per level with a maximum limitation value of -40%.
- Objects will take double damage (not injury) unless they are encumbrance.
- Radiation will be toxic damage, not rads.
- ST! means ST without HP.
- Super-ST will not be used. Generally I don't see it as necessary when you have godlike effort for lifting. Anyone can use godlike lifting.

I'll post a few write ups later, but here is the first racial template:

Kryptonian
ST +30 (Super -10%) [270]
HP -30 (Super -10%) [-54]
Fatigue +10 (Super) [15]
DR 10 (Low Signature +10%; Super -10%) [50]
IT:DR/10 (Super -10%) [135]
Enhanced Move 2 (Running; Cosmic: Instant Acceleration +50%; Super -10%) [60]
Regeneration (Regular; Super -10%) [23]
Super Jump 6 (Super -10%; AA:Enhanced Move) [12]
Overconfidence [-5]
Unusual Biochemistry [-5]

Feature: Kryptonians can buy up to 50% more DR.

Total 508 points.

Kryptonians evolved to be strong, tough, fast, and arrogant.

With a basic speed of 5, Kryptonians would have an instant running speed of 20 (~40 mph) and jump move of 29 (~60 mph). That's slower than an express train traveling 80mph, but Superman will have higher stats as a PC version of a Kryptonian enabling him to exceed what other Kryptonians can do.

Kryptonians appear like normal humans with a height and weight proportional to humans of the same HP. Any medical examination will quickly discover oddities, though.

I added Super to separate out which abilities can be stolen or neutralized if they are reduced to being a normal "human" for any reason. The PM also covers the introduction of any weird substances that affect abilities while Unusual Biochemistry covers other odd reactions.

A write up on Superman to follow with Atlanteans, Amazons, and Martians soon.

Last edited by naloth; 08-06-2020 at 07:03 AM.
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Old 08-04-2020, 04:59 PM   #2
Phantasm
 
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Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Kryptonian
ST! +30 [240]
I just want to go on record as hating that shorthand. So it's ST +30, HP -30? Why not just spell that out to make it clearer, rather than using the same indicator as wildcard skills?

Also, why are they that much stronger, but not that much more durable? You're not really clear on that point.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:12 PM   #3
pawsplay
 
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Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

In his original appearances, Superman had a brilliant intellect, the ability to learn languages within minutes, and super-hypnotism. He could also shape his face to aid in disguises. IMO the Martian Manhunter is just a Silver Age reboot of Golden Age Superman.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:34 PM   #4
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Kryptonian
ST! +30 [240], Fatigue +10 [30], IT:DR/10 [150], Regeneration (Regular) [25], Super Jump 5 [50], Overconfidence [-5], Unusual Biochemistry [-5]. Total 485 points.
You seem to be missing enhanced speed. Being able to keep up with an express train seems to call for Move 30 or so. If you do that all with Enhanced Move, you get 2.5 levels of Enhanced Move for 25 points. But if you are going with the assumption of higher native gravity, they might have Basic Speed +5 for 100 points, and then only need 1.5 levels of Enhanced Move for 15 points. And that would decrease the level of Super Jump needed also, I think.

You don't seem to have "nothing less than a bursting shell can penetrate his skin," either. That would seem to call for at least a bit of DR as well as IT.
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Old 08-04-2020, 05:48 PM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Enhanced Move 2.5 is 50 CP, not 25 CP.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:00 PM   #6
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Just for the sake of argument, I would thing that a Golden Age Kryptonian would have the following traits:

ST +20 (Reliable 10, +50%) [300]
DR 50 (Hardened 2, +40%) [350]
Enhanced Move (Ground) 3 [60]
Injury Tolerance /10 [150]
Super Jump 3 [30]

That ends up being 890 CP. You end up with the average Kryptonian able to run at 80 mph and able to high jump 10,240" (853') with a running start. Superman would have been an exceptional, though not necessarily unique, Kryptonian.

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 08-04-2020 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 08-04-2020, 06:11 PM   #7
Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by naloth View Post
In a similar fashion to the nerfed Marvel thread, I thought it would be interesting to write up a proposal for the DC universe where the characters were more grounded and less godlike.

In many cases the inspiration is from much earlier incarnations (hence the Golden Age) where they were first introduced or just much weaker. The power level is *much* lower than the present DC version of these characters. For example: Superman is strong enough to pick up a car, can leap ~1/8th of a mile, outrun an express train, and is mostly bulletproof. This Superman doesn't fly, see through walls, travel through time, or possess massive technology from an ancient civilization. Superman still hopelessly outclasses "normal" people, though.

Notes:
- Afflictions will use Innate Attack with Side Effect. Afflictions that work on anything will use the crushing cost. Afflictions that work only on living creatures will use the Toxic cost.
- Aging traits are mostly 0 point background information. Immunity to aging is 5 points.
- Costs fatigue will be -10% per level with a maximum limitation value of -40%.
- Objects will take double damage (not injury) unless they are encumbrance.
- Radiation will be toxic damage, not rads.
- ST! means ST without HP.
- Super-ST will not be used. Generally I don't see it as necessary when you have godlike effort for lifting. Anyone can use godlike lifting.

I'll post a few write ups later, but here is the first racial template:

Kryptonian
ST! +30 [240], Fatigue +10 [30], IT:DR/10 [150], Regeneration (Regular) [25], Super Jump 5 [50], Overconfidence [-5], Unusual Biochemistry [-5]. Total 485 points.

Kryptonians evolved to be strong, tough, and arrogant. While it is unknown how powerful they are in their natural environment, Kryptonians on Earth have amazing abilities that are unmatched by any species on the planet.

A write up on Superman to follow with Atlanteans, Amazons, and Martians soon.
You might take a look at my old thread Statting the Golden Age Superman, particularly posts 7 & 10, for my write-up. This was for GURPS 3e. You may want to nerf the character downwards but posts 1 & 5 give my reasoning for some of the stats. This is specifically Superman as he appeared in Action Comics during his first year. Note that he does not have a vulnerability to Kryptonite at this point. Kryptonite was actually introduced in the Superman radio series some years later. While it could be added, at this point, no one had discovered any.

Also, unlike his Silver Age counterpoint, this Superman never had a career as Superboy, though you're free to change that. He is Kal-L of Krypton, son of Jor-L and Lara and his foster parents are John and Mary Kent as opposed to: Kal-El, Jor-El, Lara, and Jonathan and Martha Kent of the Silver Age. Unlike his Silver Age counterpart, he knows that he is an extra-terrestrial but not that he is Kryptonian. He discovers Krypton and its fate in the comics at at a later date when he is already a grown man. Traditionally, DC views Superman/Clark Kent as 30 and Batman/Bruce Wayne as 29 at the start of their superhero careers but they don't age within the stories until after their age is finished. Golden Age Superman married Lois Lane ant he is in his fifties but that didn't happen until well into the Silver Age.

You can nerf my stats down but I thought it'd give you some help toward statting the character for the abilities you want, and possibly some compromises that you may need to make in GURPS 4e.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 08-04-2020 at 06:19 PM. Reason: error in post #'s
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Old 08-04-2020, 07:26 PM   #8
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasm View Post
Also, why are they that much stronger, but not that much more durable? You're not really clear on that point.
IT:DR/10 actually makes them much, much more durable. I just went that route instead of lots of HP.

To expand on that point, HP will be used for determining weight as well. At HP40, you'd expect him to have a weight and weight effects similar to an elephant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawsplay View Post
In his original appearances, Superman had a brilliant intellect, the ability to learn languages within minutes, and super-hypnotism. He could also shape his face to aid in disguises. IMO the Martian Manhunter is just a Silver Age reboot of Golden Age Superman.
Random power creep is exactly the thing I'm trying to avoid. Any powers he used a few times, especially years after he appeared, wouldn't be part of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
You seem to be missing enhanced speed. Being able to keep up with an express train seems to call for Move 30 or so.

You don't seem to have "nothing less than a bursting shell can penetrate his skin," either. That would seem to call for at least a bit of DR as well as IT.
First off, this is the Kryptonian template for a random "normal" Kryptonian. Superman will have higher stats (generally within 30% of the racial norm), since he's a PC among "normals".

I considered Enhanced Running, but with Super Jump 5 Kryptonians can already bound at Move 19 (40mph, which isn't far off the traveling rate of a 1930s locomotive). At best it's an AA worth a few points.

As for the IT:DR, I meant for it to have "cosmic: round down" to ignore fractions. He's mostly pistol proof in his first appearance. He's certainly not mortar proof until at least a year later. I'd like Kryptonians to be able to injure each other, so I wouldn't want to make the IT:DR too high that an average hit doesn't do damage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Just for the sake of argument, I would thing that a Golden Age Kryptonian would have the following traits:

ST +20 (Reliable 10, +50%) [300]
DR 50 (Hardened 2, +40%) [350]
Enhanced Move (Ground) 3 [60]
Injury Tolerance /10 [150]
Super Jump 3 [30]
I'd suggest a high base will rather than reliable if your goal is to take advantage of extra effort. With that DR and IT:DR, Kryptonians couldn't really hurt each other, ever. That also certainly exceed "mostly bulletproof" and is well into surviving tank/bunker busting weapons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
You might take a look at my old thread Statting the Golden Age Superman, particularly posts 7 & 10, for my write-up.
That looks like a valid take on the version presented towards the end of the 40s. It's way beyond what he could do in '38 and '39.

Last edited by naloth; 08-04-2020 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 08-05-2020, 01:14 AM   #9
CeeDub
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

I'll give you this: With Superman built on ca. 600 points, Batman will at least not be the pity member of the Justice League in this timeline.

I keep tinkering with a (very) nerfed version of Supergirl that uses KYOS rules, and I could still barely contain her in 600 points.

Rough outline:
IT:DR /10 [135]
DR 10 (Touch-transmissive, -20%) [35]
Flight [36]
Enhanced Move (Air) 2.5 [45] (top speed Move 102, about the same as a race car)
Innate Attack (burn) 6 (Cosmic: Irresistable Attack, +300%; some limitations) [113]
Regeneration (Slow) [9]
Resistant (Metabolic Hazards, HT +8) [14]
ST +7 [63]
Lifting ST +8 [51]

Her ST is aimed at two-handed lifting about 2.5 tons.
The touch-transmissive modifier is basically Tough Skin without Flexible.
All advantages have a -10% power modifier.
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Old 08-05-2020, 07:16 AM   #10
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: [Supers] 21st DCU Golden Age (DC Nerfed)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CeeDub View Post
I'll give you this: With Superman built on ca. 600 points, Batman will at least not be the pity member of the Justice League in this timeline.

I keep tinkering with a (very) nerfed version of Supergirl that uses KYOS rules, and I could still barely contain her in 600 points.
I was aiming for more like 750 or 1000 points. Moving to log scale does make that much easier, but this is an attempt to do it without that crutch.

Quote:
Rough outline:
IT:DR /10 [135]
DR 10 (Touch-transmissive, -20%) [35]
Flight [36]
Enhanced Move (Air) 2.5 [45] (top speed Move 102, about the same as a race car)
Innate Attack (burn) 6 (Cosmic: Irresistable Attack, +300%; some limitations) [113]
Regeneration (Slow) [9]
Resistant (Metabolic Hazards, HT +8) [14]
ST +7 [63]
Lifting ST +8 [51]
DR 10 is a better idea than Cosmic. Even with "No Signature" (so that Kal can pass as human) it's still 15 points less. I'll skip the limitations because protection vs afflictions, tasers, and needles sounds like a good thing as well. TT -20% is a good limitation but I don't think it fits here.

Quote:
All advantages have a -10% power modifier.
Super? Originally Superman was just a strong, fast, tough alien from a race that evolved under a different set of circumstances. I'm keeping Kryptonite out of the setting (it wasn't introduced later), but I may add a Super modifier since ability suppression and theft is possible.
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