Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-29-2020, 04:14 AM   #1
Luke Bunyip
 
Luke Bunyip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Insignificance
Default [AtE] Best bang for your Warlord buck?

So, the savvy warlord would be aware that pre End guns are getting a bit long in the tooth, and relic ammunition can be quite varied in quality. But there's still an army of mooks to arm; the question is, with what?

If a setting posits that black powder is available*, and there's scavengeable steel piping etc, what would be the best use of what limited metal working resources are still available? Matchlocks, muzzle loading percussion caps, revolvers like early Colts, where would the sweet spot between cost, production time, and firepower?

*Not to mention fresh low grade steel, copper, and primer material.
__________________
Melior sonus verborum interpres velet utens Google.
Luke Bunyip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 04:36 AM   #2
aaron819
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

Breech loading rifles and shotguns, and percussion cap revolvers would probably be that sweet spot.
aaron819 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 04:45 AM   #3
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

The question have been debated to death (and ressurected for further debating) in the 1632 series research groups (and also in the "Island in the sea of time", in universe).
Although the discussion are aimed at "best guns to equip a (large) army".

As I am not a gun aficianodo, I can't remember the conclusions, but it should be a good search start.

To equip smaller groups, I imagine the answers are something else.

My guess, looking for mass-produced mid/late 19th century military guns should give some good answers.

I think the hardest will be to find the schematics.

Also, tell your scavenger to search for a decent milling machine, along with tungsten carbide bits and tooling !

Last edited by Celjabba; 04-29-2020 at 05:39 AM.
Celjabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 05:18 AM   #4
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

If you have access to explosives, I'd recommend mortars for larger scale fights / sieges
__________________
Grand High* Poobah of the Cult of Stat Normalisation.
*not too high of course

Last edited by Tomsdad; 05-01-2020 at 01:40 AM.
Tomsdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 05:34 AM   #5
Luke Bunyip
 
Luke Bunyip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Insignificance
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
The question have been debated to death (and ressurected for further debating) in the 1632 series research groups (and also in the "Island in the sea of time", in universe)...
Been a while since I've looked at those. All I remember is the aphorism about beating a dead horse.

I was thinking about that before I posted the OP. The difference that leapt out for me was the presence in the 1632 setting of a functioning and established arms industry IIRC in places like Suhl.

My query is what an aspiring warlord would go for without that level of skilled labour and infrastructure.
__________________
Melior sonus verborum interpres velet utens Google.
Luke Bunyip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 05:43 AM   #6
Luke Bunyip
 
Luke Bunyip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Kingdom of Insignificance
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
If you have access to explosives, I'd recommend motors for larger scale fights / sieges
Mortars are a no brainer. I was envisaging them being used to launch flares during a night attack, as well as for delivering indirect HE fire on an enemy that has bunched up. Was going to use the stats for the Stokes ML 3” Mk I on pg 145 of HT, and then halve the range and damage.
__________________
Melior sonus verborum interpres velet utens Google.
Luke Bunyip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 06:15 PM   #7
(E)
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New Zealand.
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

First off this idea skirts around the original question somewhat or indeed replaces it, so feel free to ignore it.

Why would a warlord be making the best guns for the situation?

Wouldn't they rather be making weapons that serve their personal requirements best, as interpreted by the individual(s) who are doing the designing and manufacturing.

For example an Air Rifle might be useful as it requires less logistics, but conversely a warlord might prefer to have his(or her) goons reliant on the ammunition he or she provides.

Related to that is the person or people doing the manufacturing and designing. The armourer might be most comfortable constructing revolvers for example and every weapon he makes is based of a revolver mechanism regardless of whether it is a pistol or rifle. Equally important is the armourers opinions, they could decide that a large sight radius is critical and insist that all the rifles are long barreled like Kentucky long rifles or Jazails. Similarly they might decide that all the goons are morons and shouldn't have anything more complicated that a multibarrel break action, even if the metallurgy isn't quite reliable.

A third issue is surpluses, while this seems odd to think of in an AtE environment, people will generally tend to use what they have.
For example, there might be hundreds of a specific automotive part available to a particular warlord, this piece of hardened steel could have a series holes that make it perfect for an accordian rifle.

Or going back to your original question, how about a lever/pump/bolt action repeater that fires a pistol caliber round because of the lower stresses on gun parts.
__________________
Waiting for inspiration to strike......
And spending too much time thinking about farming for RPGs
Contributor to Citadel at Nordvörn
(E) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2020, 07:03 PM   #8
malloyd
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

I always recommend the muzzle loading flintlock rifle - produced for generations in individual shops with hand tools (still are in some parts of the world, and not just by historical recreationist hobbyists), routinely maintained on the frontiers of civilization by local smiths, accurate enough for long range hunting, for which they were used on said frontiers for all that period, replacing bows pretty much everywhere they came available, and occasionally pulled out of armories and returned to service in substantial numbers after decades. If you can produce any sort of gun, you can make these, so there is no reason to go with anything less capable, and given that they stayed in service until well after the introduction of brass cartridges, doing better apparently needs a lot of industrialization.

There are some worthwhile improvements that weren't universal historically - conical touch-holes, minne balls, socket bayonets, and a multi-peep hole or ramp adjustable "ghost ring" sight are probably good ideas - but the basic design is hard to beat for performance vs. pre-industrial production costs.
__________________
--
MA Lloyd
malloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2020, 12:07 AM   #9
Verjigorm
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Charlotte, North Caroline, United States of America, Earth?
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

Some sort of semi-auto. For the amount of effort needed to manufacture, semi-auto weapons simply out compete everything lesser. A squad of men with semi-autos should completely overwhelm a platoon of bolt-guns, and probably a very large number of flintlock users. You just can't beat the semi-auto.
__________________
A shadu an la illa illah Allah, we shadu anna Muhammadar Rasul
Verjigorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2020, 12:24 AM   #10
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: [AtE]Best bang for your Warlord buck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verjigorm View Post
Some sort of semi-auto. For the amount of effort needed to manufacture, semi-auto weapons simply out compete everything lesser. A squad of men with semi-autos should completely overwhelm a platoon of bolt-guns, and probably a very large number of flintlock users. You just can't beat the semi-auto.
Of course, the Warlord that want to become an "old warlord" probably have both a small squad of loyal followers with semi-auto near him (and a couple with scavenged full-auto) , and an army of mooks with muzzle loading rifles ...
Celjabba is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ate, high-tech

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.