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Old 03-25-2020, 09:14 PM   #21
Prince Charon
 
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
As for magic, RPM is probably best for the high energy magic of Shadowrun. Path/Book magic is too subtle and standard magic is just too clunky. Of course, you could just transfer Shadowrun Magic, giving a Magic attitude equal to Magery, and adding skills as needed.
The problem with RPM, as I understand it, is that unless you know exactly which spells your going to need and hang all of them or make charms for them, you have the issue that a lot (most?) of the really useful spells have a very high energy cost, and even with Ritual Adept, you need a lot of time to accumulate all that energy (and if you don't have very high effective skill, you run a significant risk of getting halfway there and then failing badly enough that you need to start all over again, or taking long enough that you're killed by the problem you were trying to solve before you have enough energy to solve it - see this application to try it; EDIT: The risk of critfailing and needing to start over remains even if you're preparing in advance, it just has less immediate consequences if you're doing it where and when nothing is trying to eat you).

Regular Path/Book Magic with Path/Book Adept works better than RPM for a lot of adventuring games, especially Effect Shaping (and even if it's Energy Accumulating, it still works better, because regular PBM has much lower average energy requirements). About the only advantage RPM has in this context is a defined 'new ritual development' system (I make no judgements on whether it's a good development system or a bad one, I've seen arguments for both sides and haven't tried it enough to develop an opinion there).

There are games where RPM works quite well, but I don't think Shadowgun is one of them.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:29 AM   #22
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

Let's not forget the big cattle ranchers who don't like the upstart sheep ranchers moving in.

As for non-humans, I agree that the classic Tolkien-ish expies don't work here. Maybe over in Steampunk Europe they do, but not here.



For the Indians (and remember that no one at the time called them "Native Americans"; they were all "Indians" or occasionally identified by tribe - Navajo, Commanche, etc. - but almost universally regarded by the white man as "savages" because of CF differences), I'd look into their own mythology to pull from, and remember that they didn't have a single continent-wide mythology! The tales of the Great Plains were not the same as the tales from the Deep South which were not the same as the Iroquois of upstate New York which were not the tales of the Pacific Northwest which were not the same as the American Southwest.... you get the picture.

Shapeshifters or races with dog/wolf, buffalo, coyote, eagle, duck, turtle, prairie dog, and rabbit features are more likely than elf, dwarf, ork, and troll, IMO.
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Old 03-26-2020, 02:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

For magic, I'd be tempted to go Path/Book for the Indians, RPM for the Crowley types, and Sorcery for the saddle tramps, but that's just me.
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

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For the Indians (and remember that no one at the time called them "Native Americans"; they were all "Indians" or occasionally identified by tribe - Navajo, Commanche, etc. - but almost universally regarded by the white man as "savages" because of CF differences), I'd look into their own mythology to pull from, and remember that they didn't have a single continent-wide mythology! The tales of the Great Plains were not the same as the tales from the Deep South which were not the same as the Iroquois of upstate New York which were not the tales of the Pacific Northwest which were not the same as the American Southwest.... you get the picture.
Yeah, it surprises some people that 'Native Americans' are not really an ethnicity, culture or even a coherent family of such things. There are multiple language families, with cultures and mythologies no more related than Syrians, Kenyans, Hungarians and Icelanders.

The Navajo, Apache and other Na-Dene speakers had relatively recently (within two centuries) arrived from as far North as the Arctic Circle when the Europeans arrived in the New World. They had less in common, linguistically and culturally, with the other tribes where they settled than Anglo-Saxons have with Lithuanians or Greeks.

Other Southwest tribes, like the Comanche, Hopi, Ute and other Ute-Aztecan speakers, were, like the name suggests, related to the Aztecs/Nahuan-speakers far to the South.

And so on and so forth.
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Old 03-26-2020, 07:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

Path/Book Magic is much slower than RPM, and it is quite difficult to do direct damage. Giving traditional groups Path/Book Magic and Europeans RPM would just have resulted in our history, but with a magical twist, and would not have a Shadowrun feel. One of the principle aspects of the Shadowrun setting is the disintegration of the major powers as minority/traditional groups gained magical powers that granted them a massive advantage over their oppressors.

Now, you can have a situation where the USA takes a different tack with the Native American Nations after the Awakening occurs in 1816. Constitutional amendments that guarantee the territorial integrity of the Indian Nations within the USA, strategic alliances with competing Indian Nations against common enemies, and a reduction in European immigration could result in something similar to the Old West by 1870. The Civil War would have still occurred, with a Union victory, with the NAN (Native American Nations) not providing more than indirect support for the Confederacy because of their war with the Second Aztec Empire over California.

By 1870, Western North America could be the NAN, an alliance that had stopped the expansion of the USA in the 1850s. Seattle would be an enclave given to the USA by the NAN after it funded a northern transcontinental railroad at the end of the Civil War. Denver would be an enclave of the USA in the NAN, given to the USA as partial payment for its funding of a southern transcontinental railroad. California would have been its own nation under the dominion of the Second Aztec Empire until a recent invasion by the NAN in 1865 drove out the Second Aztec Empire and made California a part of the NAN (in exchange for military assistance, the USA would have received San Francisco as an enclave, allowing it to complete a southern transcontinental railroad).
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:20 AM   #26
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

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By 1870,).
What are you going to do to speed up firearms development? If you don't speed up firearms development and introduction your gunslinbgers have very few choices in 1870.
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:41 PM   #27
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

By 1870, the Spencers M1860 and the Remington Number 1 are already available, allowing repeating rifles. If you want, you can shift the time to 1880, though you lose a lot of potential stories about Confederate expatriates seeking refuge in the NAN. 1875 might be the best compromise, since it would have been only a decade since the end of the Civil War.

One consequence of having the Awakening in 1816 is the likelihood that the Native Americans of Texas would have been able to stop settlement from the USA, allowing them to join the NAN when it later formed (or perhaps, with the NAN taking Texas from the Second Aztec Empire in the 1840s with the assistance of the USA, perhaps in exchange for some minor territorial concessions along the Mississippi River). Without Texas, the Confederacy would have likely been crippled, balanced by a weaker Union. As long as the NAN is sympathetic enough with the Confederacy to grant refuge to its expatriates after the Civil War, that allows for a lot of the traditional Western stories, though with a twist.

For example, Dodge City could be an Anglo settlement within NAN territory, supplying industrial goods in exchange for buffalo hides and meat. With the massive buffalo herds managed by the Native Americans, Anglos do not have much opportunity to drive cattle or raise sheep. After the end of the Civil War, the settlement was founded by Confederate expatriates and, ten years later, it is the largest expatriate community in the NAN. Several former Confederate officers have helped train and organize the NAN military against the regular border clashes with the Second Aztec Empire, though they really want a chance to free the South.
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

Other factors to consider (magically speaking) that might effect the Civil War/North-South Relations are the African and Haitian traditions practiced by the slaves of the era. Nearly a full half of Louisiana's population were enslaved as of 1860, and a large population of Houngans and Mambos in the heart of the South would be a ticking time-bomb during the conflict.

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Old 03-26-2020, 01:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

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What are you going to do to speed up firearms development? If you don't speed up firearms development and introduction your gunslinbgers have very few choices in 1870.
Maybe he really likes the Chassepot? ;)
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:55 PM   #30
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Default Re: GURPS Shadowgun [Brainstorm]

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By 1870, the Spencers M1860 and the Remington Number 1 are already available, allowing repeating rifles. .
The Winchester 1866 is available and makes all Spencers obsolete junk. This is even though the '66 fired the inadequate (for a rifle or carbine) .44 Henry.

There's a bigger problem for pistols. You've got the S&W #3 (but only with the .44 American) but you'll hunt through Adventure Guns very hard for an adequate 2nd choice.

Go to 1874 and you can have Peacemakers and Winchester 1873s and you might have enough guns for your gunslingers.

Incidentally, you seem to be aiming for a much more literal version of "shadowrun" than anyone else is. I don't really want an overly modern "Native American Nations".
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