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Old 10-23-2019, 05:00 PM   #1
awesomenessofme1
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Default Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

Second-Nature is an enhancement for Enhanced Move that comes from Power-Ups 4: Enhancements. It includes Cosmic (Complete maneuverability), Cosmic (Instantaneous acceleration) and one that I think only appeared in that book, Cosmic (Retains speed). The enhancement is described as allowing you to use your Enhanced Speed numbers as your Basic Move for all purposes.

How does this interact with other advantages that have the limitation (Only when moving)? Is it still based on your Basic Move? I think that makes the most sense, but it seems like a bit of a point crock. With a few levels of Enhanced Move (Second-Nature), your Basic Move will be less than your step, so you'll pretty much be getting -30% for the functional equivalent of -10% worth.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

Agreed, with Second Nature its a point crock
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:17 PM   #3
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Agreed, with Second Nature its a point crock
The issue, though, is that in my opinion, basing it on your Enhanced Move goes too far in the other direction. Even if it's a step in one case and 1/2 BM in the other, needing to move 1536 yards per second (in this specific case) is a bigger limitation than a regular person needing to move 4 yards per second.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
The issue, though, is that in my opinion, basing it on your Enhanced Move goes too far in the other direction. Even if it's a step in one case and 1/2 BM in the other, needing to move 1536 yards per second (in this specific case) is a bigger limitation than a regular person needing to move 4 yards per second.
Kinda, but with Second Nature you can move in a one hex circle and end up at the same spot. Things like the Flash running around someone in a circle to create a whirlwind should get a limitation, but it should be based on Step, not full move with Second Nature. Effectively the persons full move is a single step.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Kinda, but with Second Nature you can move in a one hex circle and end up at the same spot. Things like the Flash running around someone in a circle to create a whirlwind should get a limitation, but it should be based on Step, not full move with Second Nature. Effectively the persons full move is a single step.
Yeah, now that you mention it, you're probably right. I've just been having trouble thinking of an effective, cost-efficient attack for a speedster.
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Old 10-23-2019, 05:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Yeah, now that you mention it, you're probably right. I've just been having trouble thinking of an effective, cost-efficient attack for a speedster.
Speedsters are tough in any system I have read or played.
Most people on the forums talk about bricks in GURPS being tough but I consider them pretty easy, especially with Log ST.
I would build a lot of speedster abilities similar to howI did in Champions. In that system I used Running in a multipower and swapped to various attacks with the special effect being running.
In GURPS the equivalent is alternative abilities.
An even more versatile, though much more expensive is Wildcard powers.
But a whirlwind (Area Effect attack) where your running around the target and end up in the same place could easily be an AA of Enhanced Move.

I really wish SJG hadnt given up on the Supers genre, there is such possibility with it in GURPS!
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:01 PM   #7
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
Speedsters are tough in any system I have read or played.
Most people on the forums talk about bricks in GURPS being tough but I consider them pretty easy, especially with Log ST.
I would build a lot of speedster abilities similar to howI did in Champions. In that system I used Running in a multipower and swapped to various attacks with the special effect being running.
In GURPS the equivalent is alternative abilities.
An even more versatile, though much more expensive is Wildcard powers.
But a whirlwind (Area Effect attack) where your running around the target and end up in the same place could easily be an AA of Enhanced Move.

I really wish SJG hadnt given up on the Supers genre, there is such possibility with it in GURPS!
The big issue is that the most powerful attack that speedsters have available to them causes massive recoil damage. If you can survive it, though, speedsters can probably do the most damage point-for-point of any kind of super.
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Old 10-23-2019, 06:11 PM   #8
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1 View Post
The big issue is that the most powerful attack that speedsters have available to them causes massive recoil damage. If you can survive it, though, speedsters can probably do the most damage point-for-point of any kind of super.
You mean running into someone? I think IT:DR (Slams only) is the best way to handle that. Still expensive, but a point towards Wildcard powers.
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Old 10-23-2019, 09:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
You mean running into someone? I think IT:DR (Slams only) is the best way to handle that. Still expensive, but a point towards Wildcard powers.
Realistically speedsters still need IT:DR just to survive tripping or slipping, but thematically I don't see them as slamming foes.

A more realistic approach is that a speedster will super accelerate something then let go of it such that it will hit someone. Let that object do the slam.

Speedsters can be expensive depending on what you want them to do. Step size 100 hexes? That's expensive. Lots of ATR -> that adds up too. If you just want someone that can quickly "blip" across down, you can use Warp instead of Enhanced Move. You can use innate attack with RoF for rapid fire punches.
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Old 10-24-2019, 12:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Only while moving limitation with Enhanced Move (Second-Nature)

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Realistically speedsters still need IT:DR just to survive tripping or slipping, but thematically I don't see them as slamming foes.

A more realistic approach is that a speedster will super accelerate something then let go of it such that it will hit someone. Let that object do the slam.

Speedsters can be expensive depending on what you want them to do. Step size 100 hexes? That's expensive. Lots of ATR -> that adds up too. If you just want someone that can quickly "blip" across down, you can use Warp instead of Enhanced Move. You can use innate attack with RoF for rapid fire punches.
Step size 100 hexes isn't that expensive. Ignoring the boost you'd get from higher Basic Speed, Enhanced Move (Ground, Second Nature, +150%) 7 [350] + Basic Move +5 [25] gives you Move 1280 and step 128. 375 points is pretty expensive, but on a 1000 or even 500 point super, it's not that bad. ATR, that is going to add up fast.

If you're not worried about points, the simplest way to do it is increased Striking ST, some Extra Attacks, and the alternate rule for Move and Attack given on SU27. But it's not too efficient.
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