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Old 06-14-2019, 09:28 PM   #11
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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Originally Posted by CraigR View Post
At TL3, a lot of magics are likely to be priced out of the average budget. But if people have magic, they probably have money, too.
This doesn't follow at all. It takes one mage-day per point of energy to do Slow and Sure enchantment. GURPS isn't D&D with hard limits on how many spells you can cast per day, so a wizard can potentially do a lot of spell-casting in that one day of work. This means spell-castings should be much more common than magic items.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:48 PM   #12
edk926
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

The defenders could run a Raise Cone of Power spell theoretically forever.
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Old 06-15-2019, 08:36 AM   #13
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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GURPS isn't D&D with hard limits on how many spells you can cast per day, so a wizard can potentially do a lot of spell-casting in that one day of work.
It's not just expending a point of energy. S&S also takes time.

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Originally Posted by Magic p18
It takes one “mage-day” per point of energy required. A mage-day represents a full eight-hour workday for one mage.
So, no more than 3 enchanting points per day under any circumstances, more realistically two even if you're really overworked, and really no more than one enchantment at a time over any reasonably long term.
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Old 06-15-2019, 09:12 AM   #14
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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At TL3 that amulet is going to cost you at least $8,000. That's more than any armor loadout you can construct with Basic Set, and is quite significant even compared to more expensive armor prices found on Low-Tech. For example, the Third Crusade European Laodout in the Low-Tech loadouts book is $8,868, meaning that amulet is nearly doubling the cost of your gear.
You don't need it for all the troops. A single assassin could be enough.

So you might baffle a squad of grunts but you'd still need to protect your casters as if the Mist wasn't even there. For that well-prepared assassin it effectively won't be.
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Old 06-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #15
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

Is there any guideline as to how close you need to be to be a "spectator" and work against the ceremony?

If it's "line of sight" that would be pretty powerful (be camped out on a hill a mile away with a pair of binoculars, wish the ritual would fail) but would help explain why mages might tend to do ceremonial magic behind closed doors.

I'd like it if there was incentive to get closer to do more sabotage though. M12 gives a (is this free? do you even spend energy?) -5 from each opposing spectator, and since unskilled supporting spectators only give 1 (presumably from their FP?) that means 1 opposed can cancel out 5 supporting...

"Increased Range, LOS" is a +0% enhancement for abilities with a typical range of 2000+yards

Sense rolls use the B550 Speed/Range table which is -18 at 2000 yards (1 mile)

Rather than imparting -5 regardless of how far, what if instead it was -1 at 2000, -2 at 1600, -3 at 1200, -4 at 800, -5 at 400 or less? That way there is incentive to get closer to better disrupt the ritual.
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:17 PM   #16
Michael Thayne
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
So, no more than 3 enchanting points per day under any circumstances, more realistically two even if you're really overworked, and really no more than one enchantment at a time over any reasonably long term.
A little later in the same paragraph it says, "A mage may work on only one enchantment at a time; he may not “work two shifts,” either on the same or different items," which I interpret as limiting it to 1 enchanting point per day.
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Old 06-15-2019, 10:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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Originally Posted by Michael Thayne View Post
Magic refers to "Each spectator who opposes the casting", which doesn't sound like they need to be invited to participate or anything like that. They just need to be in a position to, well, spectate.
Sorry, but that's not so. The relevant reference is the boxed text for Ceremonial Magic on p. B238.
"If you know a spell at skill 15+ and have a group of willing assistants, you may opt to cast the spell by leading your assistants in an elaborate ritual that maximizes the spell's power."
&
"Energy cost does not change, but your assistants [emphasis mine] can supplement your energy input as follows:
Each mage who knows the spell at level 15+
Each non-mage who knows the spell at level 15+
Each mage who knows the spell at level 14 or lower
Each unskilled spectator who supports the casting
Each spectator who opposes the casting

makes it clear that even spectators who oppose the casting must, at least initially, have been willing assistants of the caster for this particular ritual (i.e. having been a willing assistant three rituals ago cuts no ice for this ritual). The willing assistants part certainly implies that even if there isn't a formal request, the choice of who counts as part of the willing assistants initially lies with the principal caster, i.e., if he didn't count you as a willing assistant, you can't affect the ritual for good or ill. OTOH if he's setting the ritual up as a continuing circle that people can drop in and out of, you might get in as part of a generic "all the members of our circle."

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Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Is there any guideline as to how close you need to be to be a "spectator" and work against the ceremony?
As noted above, you have to count as one of the willing assistants before you can be an opposing spectator. Otherwise, you likely have to be in a common area, say the sanctuary of a church, which could still be quite a large area. But being in LOS five hundred yards away probably isn't going to cut it, even if you otherwise qualify.

In 3rd Edition, it was explicitly mentioned that rituals were often performed behind closed doors to exclude the possibility of opposed spectators. Presumably, this either excluded spectators entirely or limited it to those who were trusted not to oppose the ritual. It's not clear how one goes from willing assistant to opposed spectator but something like agreeing to a fertility ritual and finding out halfway into it that it's going to involve human sacrifice would probably do.

Last edited by Curmudgeon; 06-16-2019 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 06-16-2019, 01:12 AM   #18
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

I took the italicized "willing" to mean the assistants were willing to help, not that the caster had to be willing to accept them.

M21 could be some help in defining how to qualify as an "assistant" to then be classified as one of two spectator types:
  • Most enchantments are performed using ceremonial circles.
    A lone enchanter takes a long time to do anything with Slow and Sure Enchantment, and lacks the energy reserves to accomplish much with Quick and Dirty Enchantment.
    Thus, enchanting lends itself to two tiers of enchanters – master enchanters, highly skilled and able to lead large circles, and journeyman enchanters, who participate in a circle but aren’t skilled enough to lead it

I think enchantments can't benefit from spectators like other ceremonial magic, that's why they aren't mentioned, but I think maybe you need to be IN the circle to be a spectator?
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

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I took the italicized "willing" to mean the assistants were willing to help, not that the caster had to be willing to accept them.
Exactly how I run it. Perform a public ritual, take the very real risk that anyone walking by might not want your spell to succeed.
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Old 06-16-2019, 01:50 PM   #20
Plane
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Using ceremonial magic to create an unassailable magical fortress

although if the "walking by" required "walk into the ritual circle" it'd be a lower risk. You'd still have the situation where the enemy steals one of your followers' cloaks and worms his way into the throng of dozens unnoticed, of course.
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