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Old 01-09-2021, 09:17 PM   #61
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post
I'm not quite sure I follow you, AlexanderHowl. This is a SM+21 station, inflated to SM+25 due to it having a density more like a beach ball than a warship, with a SM+26 shell of rock (or more likely a mix of rock, ice, and other useful raw materials.) around it.

Unless you are just pointing out that once the cylinders get large enough, the need for a rocky shell goes away due to sheer bulk.
Spaceships SM is by mass, not volume.
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Old 01-09-2021, 09:35 PM   #62
Tyneras
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
Spaceships SM is by mass, not volume.
Because it makes certain assumptions about ships generally staying within a certain density range, which O'Neill cylinders completely break by having a radically low density.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid #3/34 p.4
GURPS Spaceships is a mass-based system. For the most part, it makes the assumption that mass and volume are roughly equivalent, so a more massive ship is also larger. Thatís true for many designs, but, realistically, some systems will be less dense than others.
That article is about making a ships SM smaller than it's mass would indicate by making it mostly high density armor. I'm doing the opposite, making a ships SM much larger than its mass would indicate by turning it into mostly air.
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Old 01-09-2021, 09:51 PM   #63
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

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Originally Posted by Tyneras View Post


That article is about making a ships SM smaller than it's mass would indicate by making it mostly high density armor. I'm doing the opposite, making a ships SM much larger than its mass would indicate by turning it into mostly air.
Even making your ship/station 1 SM larger means you have to treat your armor as if it were a smaller system for the new SM. That would affect not only your dDR but your PF as well and I really wouldn't recommned it as a design decision. The Spaceships books havs multiple stations that are done at a standard SM.

However, if you feel like you just _have_ to do this that 1 SM change divides your average density by 3. That 21 to 25 chcnge youam ppear to eb contmeplating divides average density by _100_ and that is probably muhc more than is needed for the effect you want.

It would make more sense to me to build this as SM+25 and then just put in lots of Open Space.
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Old 01-09-2021, 09:56 PM   #64
dataweaver
 
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Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

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Originally Posted by DangerousThing View Post
Or you could have 12 billion luxury cabins, which would closer approximate a home environment, I believe. That would support 24 billion people on an SM+26 station.

Of course, you'd have to have some services which would lower the number of people (sick bays, offices, that sort of thing).

It's still a boatload of people, no pun intended.
Open Spaces can be used in many ways. One such use is as terrain upon which to build domiciles, apartment buildings, factories, and so on. That's why I'm saying go with Open Spaces instead of Habitats, for example: just let the inhabitants live and work in the Open Spaces.
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Last edited by dataweaver; 01-09-2021 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:26 PM   #65
Tyneras
 
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Location: Kentucky, USA
Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
Even making your ship/station 1 SM larger means you have to treat your armor as if it were a smaller system for the new SM. That would affect not only your dDR but your PF as well and I really wouldn't recommned it as a design decision. The Spaceships books havs multiple stations that are done at a standard SM.

However, if you feel like you just _have_ to do this that 1 SM change divides your average density by 3. That 21 to 25 chcnge youam ppear to eb contmeplating divides average density by _100_ and that is probably muhc more than is needed for the effect you want.

It would make more sense to me to build this as SM+25 and then just put in lots of Open Space.
I already did this in the previous posts. And yes, a factor of 100 is absolutely required, an O'Neill cylinder has a density 4 or 5 times that of air.
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Last edited by Tyneras; 01-09-2021 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 01-09-2021, 10:27 PM   #66
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: GURPS O'Neill Cylinder Design

It really makes more sense to keep to the mass-based SM, as it avoids confusion. If you are using Open Spaces for habitation, you probably need one area per person, so it probably does not work out. A SM+26 spacecraft ends up with 1 million areas per Open Space, so you could only support 8 million people (assuming eight Open Spaces). The problem is that you need 800 million technicians to maintain the Open Spaces, so you need $4 quadrillion in Total Automation ($500 million/inhabitant).
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