[Basic] Advantage of the Week: Mind Control

[WingedKagouti]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Enslave's casting requirements look a lot like quick and dirty enchanting. At 30 energy, and $25 per energy, that's $750 per enchantment.


So Michael's list is probably good, plus some owners will want to make examples of runaways and troublemakers.

You would almost certainly want the mage to use a variation of Enslave, as Enslave always binds the target to the caster without the option to grant the complete benefits to a third party. Heck, the caster of Enslave can at any time establish a mental link to the target to give commands or just use their eyes and ears.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by WingedKagouti

You would almost certainly want the mage to use a variation of Enslave, as Enslave always binds the target to the caster without the option to grant the complete benefits to a third party. Heck, the caster of Enslave can at any time establish a mental link to the target to give commands or just use their eyes and ears.

I'd say that it could be something like this:

Enslave to Another (VH)
Regular; Resisted by Will.

Functions like Enslave (pM141), but the target is bound to a person other than the caster (both target and owner must be present when the spell is cast).

Cost: 50
Prerequisites: Enslave and Magery 2

(Depending on the GM, the cost might be higher or lower, and the required Magery level might be higher also - honestly if I allowed Enslave in a game I was running, I'd be tempted to give it Magery 2 and raise the requirement for Enslave to Another to Magery 3, unless it was a setting where that sort of spell was supposed to be easier.)

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Icelander

The rules on how to notice failed rolls are definitely in Psionic Powers.

Yes, p12 under the heading Noticing Psi Use (that started on p11).

I don't like Mind Control in my games, mostly due to the squick factor ;p

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by johndallman

If the GM required that the subject's disadvantage total didn't change, this gets harder, because there aren't many mental disadvantages that it's ethical to give people in trade for their existing ones. Sense of Duty to family, and other culturally-specific groups, such as churches, organisations or countries qualify, as do some Codes of Honour, and Honesty.

One way to square this circle is Compulsive Behavior (Counteract Existing Disadvantage) or Obsession (Remove Disadvantage).

The psychiatrist implants the suggestion that the patient act in a harmless but time consuming way which directly counters their original problem for a certain amount of time each day (a Compulsive Behavior) or as an overarching goal (Obsession) until the problem is completely gone.

As part of the power, however, the new disadvantage can be bought off with character points.

Assume that both the original disad and the countering disad can be "bought off" at a rate of 1 CP per 200 hours of countering activity at the same rate as Learning Through Self-Study. Each 200 hours buys off -1 point of either the original disad and the new disadvantage. After n x 200 hours the old disad is gone leaving just the new one. After 400 x n hours both disads are gone.

During the time that both disadvantages exist the patient is susceptible to them both - time and attention spent on buying off the original problem and a chance that the original problem will manifest.

As an modifier to Mind Control, this trick might count as a +50% version of the Cosmic (Breaks Rules) enhancement.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Yes, p12 under the heading Noticing Psi Use (that started on p11).

I don't like Mind Control in my games, mostly due to the squick factor ;p

I think I overlooked this because it didn't have special headings, Per penalized by MoF (1-sided rolls) or MoV (contest)

Is "If the psi failed to affect the victim, the Per roll is unmodified" supposed to replace "feels a sense of mental coercion emanating from you" though?

It seems like if basic rules still apply then "this person I automatically detect coercion emanating from .. I passed my per roll so I also detect something is WRONG" doesn't add anything since coercion is already wrong.

In fact, the general "intrusive mental effects" rule (knowing something is wrong, but not why, if you pass) doesn't even tell you who's doing it to you, so Mind Control has that drawback built in and it seems like maybe you'd need a cosmic enhancement to stop it?

I say that largely because Low Signature degrees are meant to gradually penalize Detect rolls to detect something (like an ability, or it's user) but if it's automatic success that won't work, I guess unless you take Basic's +20% for No Sig which I think costs +25% as of Powers (+5% per -2, -10 is immune to sense)

[Otaku]

Okay, as someone who

• Has a more or less basic understanding of the historical slave trade
• Does not have access to the Fourth Edition version of Enslave

the Enslave spell sounds like it would become the SOP for the slave trade. Even with the Enslave spell only working for the caster! It would horrifically revolutionize the slave trade. Unless no mana zones, Magic Resistance, a weak slave market, etc. meant relying primarily on the Enslave spell was not cost efficient, all the usual tools of slavery would become supplemental and/or safeguards. Enslaved individuals would make capturing more slaves, transporting them, and preparing them for sale far easier. Even on the individual level, the mage slaver could more easily evaluate what a slave could do, because they want to serve their "master" and do their best!

As terrifying as that is in general, it would likely reshape the culture. Unless slavery was already at least frowned upon (if not illegal but still used), mages that can use Enslave are likely rising to the top. If slavery is illegal, it still may be so disturbingly effective at generating wealth and influence for the slaver that it still happens with alarming frequency. Even if it is seen as distasteful, it could be sold as a "necessary evil". After all, the work needs to be done, and the Enslaved need to do the work: Enslave ensures they not only do that work to the best of their abilities, but that they're happy in their obedience to their "master". It may be that only Enslaved slaves are permitted, with mundane slavery seen as cruel.

Of course, if slavery built around the Enslave spell is embraced, there's little hope of reaching the "top" without being able to cast the Enslave spell yourself. Getting back to Mind Control, this gives you an idea of what a culture where Mind Control in its various forms is the norm.

[Willy]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Okay, as someone who

• Has a more or less basic understanding of the historical slave trade
• Does not have access to the Fourth Edition version of Enslave

While I´m not a scientist I read dozens of books about some of the darker shades of human history, including slavery.

You are quite right with all you write here, it may be even worse, I once created a empire of evil mages, using human sacifices, enslave and other nasty things, after rethinking it I dumped it as a campaign scenario. Because if the rulers have highly trained mind control / reading skills, every rebellion is doomed. The only way to avoid this is can only be large no mana areas, probably continent size. The same goes, of course for certain psi skills which lead also to enslaved people.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Okay, as someone who

• Has a more or less basic understanding of the historical slave trade
• Does not have access to the Fourth Edition version of Enslave

the Enslave spell sounds like it would become the SOP for the slave trade.

It's behind the Very Hard fence (which I have always interpreted to mean an uncommon spell that's hard to find books or teachers for) and costs 30 points of energy. What's more it only makes the slave loyal to the caster. Thus it's the perfect tool for Dark Lords turning enemies into minions and assuring the loyalty of their generals and assassins but not great for anyone just looking to buy a courtesan or a field hand.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

It's behind the Very Hard fence (which I have always interpreted to mean an uncommon spell that's hard to find books or teachers for) and costs 30 points of energy. What's more it only makes the slave loyal to the caster. Thus it's the perfect tool for Dark Lords turning enemies into minions and assuring the loyalty of their generals and assassins but not great for anyone just looking to buy a courtesan or a field hand.

Emphasis added. You quoted my previous post in your own, but the last line makes it sound like you didn't understand what I meant. I tried to elaborate a little on how how useful the Enslave spell was to the slave trade prior to selling to "consumers". It isn't about the eventual owner of the slave knowing and having used Enslave. I am actually assuming they will not know the Enslave spell! It is about someone further up the supply chain knowing and using it, because of how much it facilitates the process, saving them quite a lot of time and effort in acquiring, transporting, and otherwise preparing slaves for the market.

Well, half of my post was that. The last bit did speculate that, if the "Enslave trade" became prominent enough, it could get to the point where anyone of importance needed to learn the Enslave Spell. Yes, it would be a long road to learn it to a useful level, but the rewards are staggering. Even then, it doesn't mean each and every slave, servant, official, etc. are going to be under the effects of Enslave, just that those who can use it are going to have a tremendous advantage, and likely surround themselves with those are are Enslaved.

I thought I made it clear that I was aware Enslave only makes the ensorcelled loyal to the caster. Saying it again; the point is that this gives the caster an edge in those "careers", and eventually, maybe even in political power.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Emphasis added. You quoted my previous post in your own, but the last line makes it sound like you didn't understand what I meant. I tried to elaborate a little on how how useful the Enslave spell was to the slave trade prior to selling to "consumers".

And I don't really get it. Enslave is an expensive spell with a long prerequisite chain intended to put people under permanent control. If all you are using it for is keeping slaves docile in transit it's overkill. It's hardly going to put all your competitors who just use manacles and threats to manage their merchandise out of business. The Charm spell would work better if you were skill 20 but there are so many other ways you can take advantage of other people with Charm.